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[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house.." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they..." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable.", ">\n\nVastly different levels." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable.", ">\n\nVastly different levels.", ">\n\nHopefully they go into as much detail as possible about what info was included in docs. \nLots of info is classified for a variety of reasons. Severity of punishment (if any) should reflect that." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable.", ">\n\nVastly different levels.", ">\n\nHopefully they go into as much detail as possible about what info was included in docs. \nLots of info is classified for a variety of reasons. Severity of punishment (if any) should reflect that.", ">\n\nPeople's minds are blown away when they realize being compliant and open about classified documents might actually not result in an FBI raid." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable.", ">\n\nVastly different levels.", ">\n\nHopefully they go into as much detail as possible about what info was included in docs. \nLots of info is classified for a variety of reasons. Severity of punishment (if any) should reflect that.", ">\n\nPeople's minds are blown away when they realize being compliant and open about classified documents might actually not result in an FBI raid.", ">\n\nI totally agree that there is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases. That said, I am assuming that classified docs are expected to be handled a certain way and clearly this was not done by either. Biden fucked up and took multiple classified docs to what seems now several diff locations. Nefarious or not, he handled them the wrong way which is not good for all the reasons that docs next to a corvette or in a storage closet at Marilago are.." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable.", ">\n\nVastly different levels.", ">\n\nHopefully they go into as much detail as possible about what info was included in docs. \nLots of info is classified for a variety of reasons. Severity of punishment (if any) should reflect that.", ">\n\nPeople's minds are blown away when they realize being compliant and open about classified documents might actually not result in an FBI raid.", ">\n\nI totally agree that there is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases. That said, I am assuming that classified docs are expected to be handled a certain way and clearly this was not done by either. Biden fucked up and took multiple classified docs to what seems now several diff locations. Nefarious or not, he handled them the wrong way which is not good for all the reasons that docs next to a corvette or in a storage closet at Marilago are..", ">\n\n\nthere is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases\n\nDude Trump took 350 high level classified docs and when asked to return them refused then lied a then obstructed. \nBiden has under 15 from his 35+ years in senior government." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable.", ">\n\nVastly different levels.", ">\n\nHopefully they go into as much detail as possible about what info was included in docs. \nLots of info is classified for a variety of reasons. Severity of punishment (if any) should reflect that.", ">\n\nPeople's minds are blown away when they realize being compliant and open about classified documents might actually not result in an FBI raid.", ">\n\nI totally agree that there is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases. That said, I am assuming that classified docs are expected to be handled a certain way and clearly this was not done by either. Biden fucked up and took multiple classified docs to what seems now several diff locations. Nefarious or not, he handled them the wrong way which is not good for all the reasons that docs next to a corvette or in a storage closet at Marilago are..", ">\n\n\nthere is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases\n\nDude Trump took 350 high level classified docs and when asked to return them refused then lied a then obstructed. \nBiden has under 15 from his 35+ years in senior government.", ">\n\nTrump also claimed nine were his personal property and demanded they be returned to him. \nAnd it wasn't just documents, he took items such as presidential gifts that are property of the National Archives, unless he purchased them." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable.", ">\n\nVastly different levels.", ">\n\nHopefully they go into as much detail as possible about what info was included in docs. \nLots of info is classified for a variety of reasons. Severity of punishment (if any) should reflect that.", ">\n\nPeople's minds are blown away when they realize being compliant and open about classified documents might actually not result in an FBI raid.", ">\n\nI totally agree that there is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases. That said, I am assuming that classified docs are expected to be handled a certain way and clearly this was not done by either. Biden fucked up and took multiple classified docs to what seems now several diff locations. Nefarious or not, he handled them the wrong way which is not good for all the reasons that docs next to a corvette or in a storage closet at Marilago are..", ">\n\n\nthere is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases\n\nDude Trump took 350 high level classified docs and when asked to return them refused then lied a then obstructed. \nBiden has under 15 from his 35+ years in senior government.", ">\n\nTrump also claimed nine were his personal property and demanded they be returned to him. \nAnd it wasn't just documents, he took items such as presidential gifts that are property of the National Archives, unless he purchased them.", ">\n\nThis is a get out of jail free card for Trump." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable.", ">\n\nVastly different levels.", ">\n\nHopefully they go into as much detail as possible about what info was included in docs. \nLots of info is classified for a variety of reasons. Severity of punishment (if any) should reflect that.", ">\n\nPeople's minds are blown away when they realize being compliant and open about classified documents might actually not result in an FBI raid.", ">\n\nI totally agree that there is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases. That said, I am assuming that classified docs are expected to be handled a certain way and clearly this was not done by either. Biden fucked up and took multiple classified docs to what seems now several diff locations. Nefarious or not, he handled them the wrong way which is not good for all the reasons that docs next to a corvette or in a storage closet at Marilago are..", ">\n\n\nthere is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases\n\nDude Trump took 350 high level classified docs and when asked to return them refused then lied a then obstructed. \nBiden has under 15 from his 35+ years in senior government.", ">\n\nTrump also claimed nine were his personal property and demanded they be returned to him. \nAnd it wasn't just documents, he took items such as presidential gifts that are property of the National Archives, unless he purchased them.", ">\n\nThis is a get out of jail free card for Trump.", ">\n\nIf Biden goes to jail for it, it makes a pretty good case that Trump should go to jail as well. Especially because the Trump issue is the Biden issue PLUS actively trying to obstruct the government from getting its own documents back." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable.", ">\n\nVastly different levels.", ">\n\nHopefully they go into as much detail as possible about what info was included in docs. \nLots of info is classified for a variety of reasons. Severity of punishment (if any) should reflect that.", ">\n\nPeople's minds are blown away when they realize being compliant and open about classified documents might actually not result in an FBI raid.", ">\n\nI totally agree that there is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases. That said, I am assuming that classified docs are expected to be handled a certain way and clearly this was not done by either. Biden fucked up and took multiple classified docs to what seems now several diff locations. Nefarious or not, he handled them the wrong way which is not good for all the reasons that docs next to a corvette or in a storage closet at Marilago are..", ">\n\n\nthere is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases\n\nDude Trump took 350 high level classified docs and when asked to return them refused then lied a then obstructed. \nBiden has under 15 from his 35+ years in senior government.", ">\n\nTrump also claimed nine were his personal property and demanded they be returned to him. \nAnd it wasn't just documents, he took items such as presidential gifts that are property of the National Archives, unless he purchased them.", ">\n\nThis is a get out of jail free card for Trump.", ">\n\nIf Biden goes to jail for it, it makes a pretty good case that Trump should go to jail as well. Especially because the Trump issue is the Biden issue PLUS actively trying to obstruct the government from getting its own documents back.", ">\n\nWorth noting that some official residences are, in fact, accredited for the use and storage of classified information.\nThe FAQ is just assuming the question asker is not one of the few exceptions." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable.", ">\n\nVastly different levels.", ">\n\nHopefully they go into as much detail as possible about what info was included in docs. \nLots of info is classified for a variety of reasons. Severity of punishment (if any) should reflect that.", ">\n\nPeople's minds are blown away when they realize being compliant and open about classified documents might actually not result in an FBI raid.", ">\n\nI totally agree that there is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases. That said, I am assuming that classified docs are expected to be handled a certain way and clearly this was not done by either. Biden fucked up and took multiple classified docs to what seems now several diff locations. Nefarious or not, he handled them the wrong way which is not good for all the reasons that docs next to a corvette or in a storage closet at Marilago are..", ">\n\n\nthere is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases\n\nDude Trump took 350 high level classified docs and when asked to return them refused then lied a then obstructed. \nBiden has under 15 from his 35+ years in senior government.", ">\n\nTrump also claimed nine were his personal property and demanded they be returned to him. \nAnd it wasn't just documents, he took items such as presidential gifts that are property of the National Archives, unless he purchased them.", ">\n\nThis is a get out of jail free card for Trump.", ">\n\nIf Biden goes to jail for it, it makes a pretty good case that Trump should go to jail as well. Especially because the Trump issue is the Biden issue PLUS actively trying to obstruct the government from getting its own documents back.", ">\n\nWorth noting that some official residences are, in fact, accredited for the use and storage of classified information.\nThe FAQ is just assuming the question asker is not one of the few exceptions.", ">\n\nI'm a conservative and I gotta give props to Garland and the DOJ for doing this.\nHope the GOP can show this level of fairness and professionalism y'all can respect as well." ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable.", ">\n\nVastly different levels.", ">\n\nHopefully they go into as much detail as possible about what info was included in docs. \nLots of info is classified for a variety of reasons. Severity of punishment (if any) should reflect that.", ">\n\nPeople's minds are blown away when they realize being compliant and open about classified documents might actually not result in an FBI raid.", ">\n\nI totally agree that there is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases. That said, I am assuming that classified docs are expected to be handled a certain way and clearly this was not done by either. Biden fucked up and took multiple classified docs to what seems now several diff locations. Nefarious or not, he handled them the wrong way which is not good for all the reasons that docs next to a corvette or in a storage closet at Marilago are..", ">\n\n\nthere is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases\n\nDude Trump took 350 high level classified docs and when asked to return them refused then lied a then obstructed. \nBiden has under 15 from his 35+ years in senior government.", ">\n\nTrump also claimed nine were his personal property and demanded they be returned to him. \nAnd it wasn't just documents, he took items such as presidential gifts that are property of the National Archives, unless he purchased them.", ">\n\nThis is a get out of jail free card for Trump.", ">\n\nIf Biden goes to jail for it, it makes a pretty good case that Trump should go to jail as well. Especially because the Trump issue is the Biden issue PLUS actively trying to obstruct the government from getting its own documents back.", ">\n\nWorth noting that some official residences are, in fact, accredited for the use and storage of classified information.\nThe FAQ is just assuming the question asker is not one of the few exceptions.", ">\n\nI'm a conservative and I gotta give props to Garland and the DOJ for doing this.\nHope the GOP can show this level of fairness and professionalism y'all can respect as well.", ">\n\nI got some news for you" ]

[ "“We’ve been investigating since November.” \nI’m more curious about NARA dropping the ball.", ">\n\nYeah, that's my issue mainly too. They should know if documents are missing.", ">\n\n\nThey should know if documents are missing.\n\nI have a friend who works at State; he told me that the sheer volume of classified material generated by the WH makes it hard to control.\nI don't care if it's hard to control, it needs to be controlled anyway.", ">\n\n100% I've heard the same. Sheer volume. Over classification of documents. I don't care. Hire more people and develop new systems to manage it better. It needs to be under control.", ">\n\nYour realize that rhe modus operandi of the GQP is to not fund places it doesn't want to do their jobs?\nPost office? Refuse to budget them, then say they're useless so they can try to privatize or get rid of it again.\nIRS? Keep under funding them, so they cannot have the manpower necessary to investigate and litigate rich people and corporations for tax fraud/evasion.\nStop blaming the institutions being eroded, blame the assholes breaking it on purpose so they can get away with their crimes", ">\n\nBiden should just declassify the documents with his mind, problem solved.", ">\n\nMaybe the FBI planted them! And if they didn’t then he already declassified them.", ">\n\nInvestigate and if anything improper is found then prosecute. It's not rocket science. This goes for Trump or Biden. This is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Democrats don't give a shit if you go after a Democrat... if they did something wrong they should be punished.", ">\n\nYou can't prosecute a sitting president. That has been clearly established. The House can--and probably will--impeach him.", ">\n\nThey were going to impeach him anyway. They said as much.", ">\n\nBut I was really looking forward to articles of impeachment being brought because Disney cast a dark skinned woman as the little mermaid, or because Joe fell off his bike. \nIt's kind of a bummer that they now have something that sounds a bit more legitimate to waste time with.", ">\n\n\na bit more legitimate to waste time with.\n\nI voted for Joe and I plan to vote for him again if he runs again. That said, if there was a significant crime here, then it isn't a waste of time. I wouldn't even want the Democratic majority to just acquit him in a Senate trial. If he did something that warrants being removed from office, then remove him from office (If somehow this was true, it would mean he wouldn't be getting my vote in 2024).", ">\n\nSomeone else needs to run in 2024, and someone needs to start explaining that to Biden now.", ">\n\nHe's going to run. People need to get over the idea that he may not run. Baring some huge legal or medical issue he's going to run.", ">\n\nYes he is going to run.\nA lot of people who voted for him don't want him to run again and may not vote for him again.\nThese two things can both be true.", ">\n\nI voted for Biden.\nI don’t want him to run again.\nIf Trump is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nIf Desantis is the nominee, I’ll vote for Biden again.\nRepublicans are self proclaimed party of domestic terrorists.\nAs an independent, I will treat them as such and vote blue until they get their shit together.\nFuck the GOP.", ">\n\nSo NARA seemed to know that there were missing documents and tried to work for months with dt's team to get them back.\nIt has obviously been awhile since biden was vp, was NARA attempting to find these documents all this time? \nI assume that there is a database of all confidential documents and that they are tracked, which is how they knew trump still had certain documents in his possession.\nDid NARA not know these docs were missing? Or they didn't care? That's what I'm curious about.", ">\n\nNARA had no idea that these documents were missing and did not request them. Had Biden's attorneys shredded them no one would ever know about this.", ">\n\nYeah, the Biden situation is more of a condemnation of our systems for tracking classified documents and making sure they don't go missing than it is a scandal for Biden. \nTrump's situation is disturbing because of the lengths he went to in order to keep the documents even after they were requested and conceal the fact that he had them. Hard to imagine a non-nefarious reason for doing that.", ">\n\nSo for the trouble, Garland appointed a Republican operative with a blank check....I wonder how that will go?", ">\n\nI know for a fact that there are still a lot of unbiased judges who aren't political operatives either way (they mostly go one way) in this country so I'm beginning to question Garland's motives or competence at this point.", ">\n\nHe was on speed dial at the Federalist Society to moderate their panels. That is not something an organization would likely hand over to someone outside their \"values\"", ">\n\nIt's certainly interesting seeing the pearl-clutching over classified documents, particularly amongst Republicans, who summarily ignored the subject when it involved DJT.", ">\n\nThey’re still rehashing the line that Trump declassified all the documents he had and that since Biden was VP he couldn’t. So trump is innocent and Biden is a criminal. And if Obama declassified any of those he was only doing it to cover Biden and is also a criminal.\nIt’s like a straight up parody over there right now.", ">\n\nThe DOJ isn't even arguing the classification status in court. From what I understand they're investigating him for being in possession of defense documents without authorization.", ">\n\nAnd now that there’s a special counsel this will be investigated and the truth will come out.\nIt won’t be satisfying for a lot of people but the truth of what happened here is important.\nAs well as what measures we can take to further prevent things like this from happening. \nBut like, the conservative goalposts keep moving. They’re just treading through them as fast as they can. A new one is that Trump has secret service protecting his documents while Biden didn’t. \nBiden still had secret service protection. And saying Trumps protected it means conspiracy. So that’s super fun.", ">\n\nI wonder if they know Secret Service protects the individual and not property. When he's not at MAL the Secret Service isn't either, they go where he goes. He has to have private security for that. It's the same reason there weren't Secret Service agents protecting Pelosi's house.", ">\n\nAt the end of the day it is what it is and if Biden is guilty he’s guilty. \nThere’s no dancing around the issues. \nBut if Biden is guilty, then Trump is guilty. It’s not one or the other here, which is what they’re saying.\nIt’s just amazing watching them bend over backwards to say how Biden belongs in prison and Trump did nothing wrong.", ">\n\nNARA knew Trump still had documents and requested them for almost a year before the first batch were returned, DOJ was involved only after the first batch was returned. Shortly after that it was reported. They knew things were missing and it was kept quiet for a year. \nNARA didn't know Biden still had documents, when they were discovered and returned DOJ got involved and shortly after that it was reported. \nThere's not much difference in how the DOJ handled the two cases publicly. The only difference was that the refusal to turn over the rest of the documents was kept quiet until the Maralago search happened. If they find more, we're going to hear about each single scrap of paper Biden's lawyers voluntarily turn over. One by one, a constant trickle in the news cycle.", ">\n\nThe difference is intent, quantity, quality, lying and obstruction. \nThe similarities are they are classified docs. \nOne is robbing the bank and the other is forgetting to deposit the checks.", ">\n\nThe MAGA cult doesn't understand nuance unfortunately. In their mind, what Biden \"did\" is already worse than what Trump did.", ">\n\nIt's not about nuance. It's about their worldview. \nIn their mind, their \"team\" can do no wrong, no matter what horrible shit they pull. It's always for the \"greater good of Murica.\"\nBy contrast, in their mind the \"other team\" can do no right. Even if Biden himself single-handedly cured cancer and was lifted to the heavens by a choir of angels, they would still see some nefarious plot to destroy the country.", ">\n\nA large number of them would still choose to die of cancer out of spite. The rest would die from overdoses of gymnasium floor cleaner or whatever other pseudoscience nonsense their cult leaders are peddling at the time.", ">\n\nDifference between Republicans and Liberals: \nI, as a liberal, am all for an independent investigation into potential wrongdoing and/or negligience by Biden over the documents, and to be held accountable if required.\nRepublicans want no investigation into Trump or other Republicans for ANYTHING.\nDon't \"both sides\" this.", ">\n\nWe shouldn't allow them to make it equivalent either..", ">\n\nBingo. Investigate Biden, but don't pretend an oversight quickly remedied when it was discovered is the same as Trump hoarding secret documents like he's a fucking dragon on a pile of gold.", ">\n\nI can’t even imagine all the secret documents floating around out there. I find it hard to believe that after all these years the ONLY two people in the country witj secret documents were found out. What’s missing out of millions that nobody knows about.", ">\n\nGWB has gotta be doing a once-over on his ranch right about now. But even if he found something, the DOJ would accept the return and keep it quiet. I'm curious how often this happens and we just don't hear about it because it should be embarrassing for all parties involved.", ">\n\nGiven that the last 3 presidential candidates all have had classified information in their residences, I'd say it's very often.\nAlso, this makes sense on why the case for Trump is slow rolling. They aren't going after Trump for possession of documents but for the obstruction of the investigation, which has a much higher bar to clear.", ">\n\nIt's insane how blatant this countries leaders are complicit with fascism.\nTrump had hundreds of documents, refused to work with anyone, and on top of everything, still has documents missing. It's like they're purposely dragging their feet. He's been literally referred for criminal charges by a house committee and they do nothing.\nBiden has a few documents (which he hands over willingly and works with the department) and it's time for fucking ludicrous speed.\nPathetic.", ">\n\nLudicrous speed is how you suck the wind out of the GOP. Otherwise you're battling these allegations right up through campaign season.", ">\n\nThat's another way of saying we are pandering to their tantrums.", ">\n\nAnd the alternative, leaving it and letting it fester, would also be pandering to their tantrums. There's such thing as a no-win situation, which Biden placed us in here", ">\n\nThe point is, they still haven’t charged Trump with shit, Bannon got an 18 month slap on the wrist for an attempted coup and half the people involved in January 6 are still free. But when it’s time to pander to republicans (whose voters aren’t gonna care either way) suddenly the DOJ wants to make a big show of being impartial. \nWhat’s the point of impartiality if we’re letting people off the hook for an attempted coup? I think appointing Garland as AG is one of the worst decisions Biden has made as president.", ">\n\nThe legal experts I like to follow in the media are saying this is a bit overkill but still a fair and evenhanded way of sorting this all out. It's a big headache for Biden and the DOJ but Biden should have been more careful. Given everything we know about Biden I going to assume for the time being that it was just an error and not anything nefarious. However, this prosecutor seems to be on the up and up, so if he concludes something different then I will trust what he says.", ">\n\nAh, the key difference between the two parties: Only one trusts non-partisan institutions even if there are consequences for their own.", ">\n\nI'll admit many years ago, when I was first following politics, I got into the tribalism and would dismiss any claims of corruption against \"my side\". That's a dangerous road to go down. Never sell out your sense of right and wrong for political gain. There's no such thing as a good politician that breaks the law. \nAs I said above, I'm not overly concerned that Biden did anything seriously wrong but that's not my final assessment. If something else comes to light that shows that's not the case and he did do something seriously wrong, I can't in good conscience ignore that.", ">\n\nYep, I'm all for investigating whats likely nothing because it could be something. Unfortunately trust in our institutions has been degraded so much that even if nothing comes of it, it'll be used as a boogie man for the foreseeable future.", ">\n\nSeems more like an honest mistake than malicious like trump’s seeing as he is cooperating, but why in the hell did classified documents go missing for years and the government literally never noticed? Why bother with classified documents if the chain of custody is so laughable", ">\n\nTrump's obstruction is the whole point. Don't get distracted.", ">\n\nTrumps obstruction is a part of the point. The main point was he had some of the most confidential documents in this country sitting in a resort.", ">\n\nThat he himself requested be packed up and shipped...then refused to hand them over and lied about it. Not taking a hard stance yet but it appears that someone else was responsible for Biden's documents, which they quickly and proactively turned over. These stories aren't even close to the same.", ">\n\nWell one thing we know for sure is that no Biden Libs are going to go threaten/attack the Feds like the crazy dude did at the Cincinatti FBI after the Maralago search", ">\n\nImagine shooting a nail gun at the FBI and bleeding to death in a corn field for a politician, much less one who got searched because he lied about what he had. What a stupid waste.", ">\n\nIt’s so much more dumb than that. Using a nail gun in an effort to defeat bullet resistant glass.", ">\n\nI heard this in Benoit Blanc's voice.", ">\n\nThe writers for 2023 are already re-using old plotlines", ">\n\nTrue, but bet you didn't see this twist coming though.", ">\n\n“No country was ever easier to spy on, Tom, no nation so open-hearted with its secrets, so quick to air them, confide them, or consign them too early to the junk heap of planned American obsolescence. I am too young to know whether there was a time when Americans were able to restrain their admirable passion to communicate, but I doubt it.\"\n― John Le Carre, A Perfect Spy", ">\n\nGood, assuming it's about the classified docs. Go through the process, gather all the facts, report back to us.", ">\n\nIt's not a great look for Biden and I strongly suspect Biden and Trump aren't the only former VP/Presidents to have held onto classified documents, either intentionally or unintentionally. \nThe circumstances of the two cases are much different, of course. Trump tried to hide them and lied about the documents, however in the court of public opinion Democrats will look like hypocrites based on the headlines and both will be viewed as equally bad. \nInteresting to note that Republicans suddenly care very much about classified documents, however. Perhaps Obama secretly declassified them and never told anyone!", ">\n\nThey’re saying it’s different because Biden was VP and can’t declassify them, but Trump was president and said he did declassify them. Of course they believe him.", ">\n\nYeah but Obama once thought of them as declassified and therefore they're declassified.", ">\n\nLook at all of the speculation and uncertainty in the comments here. This is exactly why we need a Special Counsel to investigate and report back on exactly what happened. None of this, whether it's Biden's classified documents problem or Trump's, is going to be resolved anytime soon. You can make some educated guesses on what happened in each case but it's far better to just wait for an independent review from the two Special Counsels in these two unrelated cases. \nYeah it sucks but if you follow politics long enough a scandal is going to come by eventually that involves your side. Sit back, wait for the facts, and don't stress about winning news cycles or trying to convince Republicans of this or that. And also don't automatically jump to the worst case scenario. You'll just stress yourself out over something that is very unlikely to happen", ">\n\nYou're the most reasonable person I see so far in this thread.", ">\n\nExcuse me, I'm a goose", ">\n\nDamn Garland real quick on this.", ">\n\nand yet so slow on trump", ">\n\nThe GOP keeps crying about \"unequal treatment\"? There's your unequal treatment right there.", ">\n\nHouse GOP will have started impeachment hearings by the end of January.", ">\n\nThey will do that anyway.", ">\n\nTrue. He'll be impeached on a party-line vote in the house and acquitted on a party-line vote in the senate, but that was inevitable already.", ">\n\nMan this thread is wild with the both-sides-ing and false equivalencies.\nTrump intentionally takes boxes of classified material, stonewalls the National Archive, actively resists attempts to recover classified documents, hides them, lies about them, gets searched, and continues to find classified material after that, and gets a special prosecutor after two years of all that.\nBiden's team finds a handful of documents that no one knew were missing, contcts the National Archive the same day they were found and makes arrangements to hand them over the day after that... and BAM instant special prosecutor.\nSure, maybe they both deserve it, but in that case, why was one not appointed for Trump 18 months ago?\nOr maybe only one deserves it, in which case the other is a blatantly political CYA from a supposedly \"apolitical\" DoJ.\nEither way, the double standard is on clear display for anyone who cares to look.", ">\n\nTrump was fighting returning the documents. Biden turned them over voluntarily.\nAside from that, the open questions are: What the fuck are they doing with them? Why the fuck weren't they being stored securely? What else don't we know about?", ">\n\nWhatever happens Biden at least gets the benefit of the doubt here because he’s cooperating and turning over documents, rather than lying about having them and slow walking the National Archives.", ">\n\n\nslow walking the National Archives.\n\nslow ~~walking~~ waddling the National Archives. FTFY", ">\n\nI thought Biden could just rub his fingers on his temples while saying \"meemeemeemeemee\" and through time travelling mind powers magically retroactively declassify them? Is that not how this works? A certain someone wouldn't just lie about that, right?", ">\n\nBiden is cooperating with the investigation, which is a MAJOR and important difference from Trump.", ">\n\nInvestigate it, I’m for it. I’m not beholden to any politician. But I will say if Republicans are going to say this is a big deal and look to impeach Biden over it, better hear the same level of outrage about Trump.", ">\n\nWe all know it won’t go down that way, though.", ">\n\nThe US government has no effective system in place for tracking who has possession of classified documents, where they are being stored, and what steps are being taken at the storage sites to ensure the documents are secure.", ">\n\nKinda sounds like it’s the responsibility of the person handling the documents then, right?", ">\n\nI’m not watching it as the only thing I want to hear from him is:\nThe Joe Biden admin turned in the documents as required. \nTrump will be indicted for not doing so. \nThe end.", ">\n\nI watched Trump do whatever he desired for years and faced pratically no oversight, yet MSNBC for two days now has been up Biden's ass as if these are comparable situations. I don't know, it just doesn't seem organic to me. The lack of oversight for one party and the assumed guilt of the other, it just does not seem like real events playing out.\nIf Biden broke the law, lock his ass up, just treat both parties the same and have the same weight and gravity for each situation. Sometimes it seems like \"liberal\" media is harder on itself then it is on their opponents, and during a time of rising fascism and the fall of democracy its important to do things the right way.", ">\n\nOf course it's not organic. The media craves confrontation because it makes their ratings go up. Nothing would be better for their bottom line than seeing Trump be reelected or attempt another coup.\nDon't be mistaken: media outlets absolutely loved the shit out of the Trump presidency even when he called them \"Enemies of the State\", and they're still reeling from the return to normalcy of the Biden administration. Reporters are disposable, reputation and veracity no longer matter, and revenue is the sole remaining goal.", ">\n\nThe CEO of CBS even outright admitted on camera during an interview:\n\"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.\"\n\"I've never seen anything like this, and this is going to be a very good year for us. Sorry, it's a terrible thing to say, but, bring it on Donald, keep going.\"\n\"Man, who would have expected the ride we're all having right now? The money's rolling in and this is fun.\"\n- Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS", ">\n\nSpecial Counsel. No surprise.", ">\n\nWe're gonna have more special councils than legislations these next two years", ">\n\nGiven the GQP majority in the House--and their stated agenda, I'm okay with the second part.", ">\n\nFrom CNN about people they've interviewed. I expect this to be cleared up quickly legally and for those of use who aren't GOP conspiracy theorists. Of course the GOP will run with it for 2 years.\n​\n----------CNN BELOW----------\nThe group includes former aides from Biden’s time as vice president who may have been involved in packing and closing out his records and personal items and extends to some individuals who may have had knowledge how the documents discovered on Nov. 2 ended up inside Biden’s office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Engagement, the people said.", ">\n\nWatching the House Republicans will be interesting. To fund or defund the DOJ...? Will they be able to hold it together?", ">\n\nSelectively defund!", ">\n\nLet there be an investigation. No one should be above the law. I’m just thinking about how the GOP would be screaming about “witch-hunts” if this happened to their guy.", ">\n\nI mean, they already have. They want to defund the FBI because of it.", ">\n\nThat’s a fair point. The GOP wants their people to be above the law. I doubt there’s going to be any significant backlash from Democrats over this investigation.", ">\n\nI think one issue they are doing this for is the same reason Trump got a special counsel for Comey. The FBI was very leak-happy until Mueller came in and sealed the leak. I think some Biden haters waited until January 1 to start leaking stuff because I think usually the return of docs would be kept quiet. The DOJ tried to quietly recall all of Trump's shit.", ">\n\nThe only reason we know Trump had anything was because the FBI showed up to his place, and then Trump started complaining. It’d been going on for over a year where NARA and the DoJ were asking nicely for them.\nThey didn’t even know these were out there which is more worrisome from a process standpoint. But Republicans will say they’re the same because they’re idiots.", ">\n\nLemme just lay out the facts here: Trump STEALS top secret documents, refuses to give them back, recieves a subpoena, ignores it, gets raided by FBI, STILL DOESNT HAND EVERYTHING BACK. Still waiting for charges. Vs a couple of documents (not proven to be top secret yet) from over a decade ago are found in some office that biden used to own. And garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former. Give me a fucking break", ">\n\n\nAnd garland decides to act on the latter faster than the former\n\nDems love going out of their way to show how \"neutral\" they are. Like they did with Al Franken, to their own demise.\nI'm not defending Biden and maybe it really is appropriate for the DOJ to look into it.\nBut like you said, the DOJ is essentially dragging their feet on an open shut case with Trump, and rushing through the Biden case just to show how \"neutral\" they are, while basically delivering \"bothsidesism\" to Republicans.", ">\n\nI wonder how much -- if at all -- the DOJ's hesitancy with moving at the appropriate (necessary, even) pace w/r/t Rump has to do with how large a threat they consider right-wing domestic terrorism these days.", ">\n\nIn other news, the media is going to cover this 10x more than Trump's classified document story. Biden is going to look worse despite the fact that Trump deliberately held documents and Biden's was, most likely, a mistake. \nOf course, Republicans who can't understand nuance are going to say \"SEE ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME\" and then treat Trump like a martyr.", ">\n\nI don't know. There was like 3 weeks of wall to wall coverage last summer when the FBI went to Mar A Lago. I don't know how much coverage Biden will get but it's certainly not correct to say that there was very little coverage of Trump's document woes", ">\n\nNo one ever said there was little coverage of Trump's document woes? I said the media is going to cover this 10x more. You know what 10x more of \"3 weeks of wall to wall coverage\" is? 30 weeks. Nowhere in my post did I imply there was \"little coverage\" of Trump's bullshit.", ">\n\nThe difference is Biden is a great leader and when great leaders make mistakes they own them and make corrections.\nTrump was the opposite and put our national security at risk!", ">\n\nI think some of you are being a tad dramatic. You can go through my history and see that when this story first broke a few days ago I said not to dismiss this outright or make excuses for Biden. However, it's not wise to go completely in the other direction and say Biden is 100% fucked and somehow Trump gets off scot free now. \nIn all likelihood this is a case of carelessness by Biden. Not illegal but certainly not a good look politically. Also this has nothing to do with Trump or what he did. The actions of Biden don't cancel out Trump's or vice versa. \nThis is, at best, a major headache but if Biden didn't want to deal with this maybe he should be more careful.", ">\n\nIn all likelihood, Biden himself knew nothing about this and he's not the one liable for anything if there is even criminal charges. Trump, on the other hand, actively refused to hand them back.", ">\n\nAlso the contents of the documents matters. Trump took nuclear secrets, we need to wait and see what the contents of Biden's documents may have contained.", ">\n\nI’m guessing Desantis and his running mate Carrot Top are gonna use this as fuel for next year?", ">\n\nYou mean George Santos and Carrot Top", ">\n\nI'm annoyed at the whataboutism that will ensue and has...but I'm not super mad this is happening. If one wasn't appointed there would also be loud gnashing!\nWhat's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is true even if the orange goose refused to clean up its own shit, while the gander did (the Corvette comment was stupid tho).", ">\n\nI for one, come here exclusively for the whataboutisms.", ">\n\nMaybe we should all just be given some classified documents and call it evens.", ">\n\nDibs on jfk assassination papers.", ">\n\nFine, but I get the full 9/11 report.", ">\n\nTrade after?", ">\n\nYour terms are acceptable.", ">\n\nThe real problem this is pointing out is why is it so easy to take classified docs without the National Archives knowing about it. Why is there no paper trail of the documents movements. Why isn’t every person and box searched before leaving the White House. Why is access and return of classified docs on the honor system. I can’t even imagine how much classified info is floating around unchecked. No possible way only Trump and Biden did this.", ">\n\nI had a security clearance when I was in the Army. Much of the stuff that was classified was boring and basic. Controls are not tight at all re low level classified documents. I used to shred hundreds of pages of supposedly \"secret\" shit every day. I'm sure we occasionally missed something.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents\n\nComer also told reporters that he “is not a fan” of special counsels, in part because he doesn’t have confidence in whoever Attorney General Merrick Garland might appoint, and thinks his committee can be “more effective.”\nBut, he added: “The fact that they called for special counsel for Trump's handling of classified documents, I don't see how they can not appoint a special counsel” for Biden.\n\nlol, lmao\n'A special counsel would be close to worthless, but we should definitely have one anyways.'", ">\n\n118th house of reps sole mission: smear Biden for 2024.", ">\n\nThis is actually a very canny move on Garlands part, besides being the right thing to do it's going to be a lot harder for Republicans to defund Jack Smith.", ">\n\nremember the House wants to go after Garland too. Garland just took that bullet out of their gun.", ">\n\nI am completely fine with a special counsel for this.\nWe should hold anyone who violates the law accountable for their actions. Don't really care what letter is in front of their name.", ">\n\nCorrect.", ">\n\nBest outcome. DOJ says there is no evidence Biden was aware documents were still in his possession, and current Biden's team is fully cooperating as soon as they were informed. Someone screwed up back during his VP days. No way to get around it. Keep in mind. This happens more than you think.\nUnfortunately in timing, public has been whipped into a frenzy with Trump knowingly fighting National Archives the past year, and most will simply take the east path and draw equivalents between the two men.", ">\n\nEspecially since the message being distilled down to non-political junkies and the general population is “Biden stole documents too”", ">\n\nIt should come as no surprise that a special counsel has been appointed. It would be politically foolish not to, and it's the appropriate course of action when it's a case that involves a sitting President. People will take this as a negative, but the fact of the matter is that in situations like this, it's the appropriate and normal course of action.", ">\n\nYeah it’s just extremely annoying and damaging that the normal appropriate course of action only applies to Democrats. I’m all for holding people accountable. It’s just that we aren’t, most of the time. There’s a mountain of evidence that we haven’t been.", ">\n\nDoesn't help that after watching Trump continue to brag about his crimes for 2 years, a lot of people are running a bit low on faith in the DOJ.", ">\n\nCNN: House Oversight chair vows to hold hearings on Biden's handling of documents", ">\n\nThousands of politicians reving up their paper shredders as we speak.", ">\n\nI feel like part of this is going to be how did NA have no idea that these records were missing", ">\n\nAh yes the thing we should be doing for both Republicans and Democrats - investigating when something is done incorrectly.\nOnly difference is Republicans work to actively hinder those investigations into their own. Don’t see Biden trying to obstruct anything at all, but Republicans will conveniently forget that.", ">\n\nPlaying by the rules is a weakness unfortunately", ">\n\nThis is some bizzaro level shit. To get a special counsel going this fast, better mean that Jack Smith is going to prosecute the shit out of Trump.", ">\n\nYep, probably should be investigated. Go for it. \nLittle annoying how quickly Garland moved in this instance when everything else has been in slow motion, but what do I know?", ">\n\nCooperation and transparency is making his job easy.", ">\n\nBecause of Trump and Biden both having classified documents we have determined that we can only solve this with a steel cage death-match", ">\n\nTurmp took the doc on the way. They were not for use in the line of his activities outside the office. He lied having them and obstructed return of the documents. Trump had 350 documents.", ">\n\nThis is so annoying.", ">\n\nYet, still no ramifications for Trump who INTENTIONALLY TOOK TRUCKLOADS OF DOCUMENTS AND REFUSED TO RETURN THEM??\nJustice in America is dead.", ">\n\nThis is the same step they took with Trump.", ">\n\nCompare the timeframes, lol.", ">\n\nThe odd thing: timing.\nFor the entirety of TFGs term, aides, the DOJ, The National Archives -- NO ONE mentioned anything was missing.\nRight after the Repubs BARELY get a House majority, all this happens....🤔", ">\n\nIt would be more suspect if this stuff came out before the midterms. In terms of damage control for the Biden admin, this is probably the best time this could come out. Midterms over, and still as far from 2024 as possible.", ">\n\nDems handed Republicans the biggest platter of whataboutism. The public is too stupid to care about the difference so this will end up in a wash where nothing happens to both.", ">\n\nNothing was going to happen to Trump anyway.", ">\n\nYawn.\nCall me up when Biden hides classified papers and refuses to cooperate. Joe Brandon isn't duplicitous like Trump.", ">\n\nBiden and his people/staff fucked up. Should have given no ammo to the GOP. \nIf anything this should tell us that a lot of politician have classified material somewhere else.", ">\n\nOh yeah, no way THATLL backfire.", ">\n\nInvestigate all you need, I have no issue with that. \nDon't for a second try to say this is a 1:1 comparison of Trump's crimes.\nTrump stole multiple truck loads of documents, took them to his private resort and stored them in an unlocked room by the pool, later they added a cheap padlock. He lied about having them and refused to give them back. Folders were found EMPTY. \nIf you think those situations are the same, you're being disingenuous.", ">\n\nThis seems really convenient.", ">\n\nThis was always the issue with having Trump, and his hapless morons in his administration, serve as the executive. \nEverything Trump did other presidents did/will do in the future. The problem was he was so blatantly stupid and out of his depth that it exposed everything as horribly corrupt. So if he did it, and it was bad, by the transitive property anyone else who does it is equally bad.\nIts so incredibly stupid", ">\n\nI am a bit surprised by the speed of assigning a special counsel but i am not against the idea. Presidents are not kings and DOJ needs to be non-partisan ( or appear to be).", ">\n\nNo problem. Let the chips fall where they may. Nobody is above the law. Not Biden, not Trump, nobody.", ">\n\nCan’t Biden just say he unclassified them “by thinking about it”?", ">\n\nSee you all in 6 months when we learn that an intern just shoved a bunch of papers from the VP's White House office into boxes when they were packing up without going through them and it's reported as a B7 story.", ">\n\nThat does seem to be the most likely answer, especially since the majority of the documents were found in a storage area that seems rather buried/unused. It seems like mishandling of documents but in the “oh shit I put that paper in the wrong desk bin” way not the “I wonder how much these nuclear codes will sell for” way", ">\n\n“We’ve determined both Biden and DJT mishandling of documents cancel each other out, good luck America”", ">\n\nThese penalties offset, repeat first down", ">\n\nI just find it a little weird that suddenly classified documents have been found in Biden's home as public pressure is ramping up to indict Trump for deliberately stealing documents and lying about having taken them. Maybe someone just got careless and this is a relatively innocent fuckup, but why then has Garland taken no further action towards indicting Trump for worse crimes? Special counsel appointments feel meaningless these days.", ">\n\nSeems like it's all a plot by Republican operatives to oust Biden.", ">\n\nI keep hearing this stuff on Twitter, but really, I'm not willing to go that tin foily.", ">\n\nIm sure ill get hate for this but this situation is nothing like Trumps\nBiden made a mistake and rectified it the second he realized it with one document marked classified...Trump purposely and knowlingly held onto piles of documents including classified documents because he decided he was a toddler and they were \"his\" to the extent he actively impeded investigation into his holding of the documents, lied to NARA, and had to be raided by the FBI before he would even give up the documents and that was after he was given 3 opportunities by law enforcement/DoJ to freely hand the documents back over they knew he had?\nOf course that distinction wont stop the house from making a circus out of the situation", ">\n\nEarlier in this thread, I jokingly said Biden should just declassify the documents “with his mind”.\nThis is the response I got from one rocket scientist: No because Biden took these when he was vice president and not president. That’s why this is a crime and trumps was not. Biden had no declassification ability while he was hiding these for 6 years", ">\n\nThis is how the government is supposed to function (as in, allowing an investigation into the sitting-President's actions). A President isn't, and shouldn't, be immune from investigation or prosecution. The abnormality was Trump constantly getting involved in issues relating to his actions.", ">\n\nPrediction: Garland will continue to be a predictable, milquetoast disappointment that bends to both-siderism instead of actually upholding the law.\nOn August 8th the FBI raided Mar-a-Lago for classified material, including our most sensitive nuclear secrets. Three days later Garland makes a statement. \nOn Janurary 10th news breaks that 10 classified documents were found at Biden's think tank. Two days later Garland makes a statement. \nSomething is deeply fucking broken about this man.", ">\n\nDude, he can't be a Bill Barr. No one should.", ">\n\nThere's no third option?", ">\n\nThis is either going to be really good, or really bad. There's no in between.", ">\n\nBut have you considered that Garland is a centrist? /s", ">\n\nLike I've said, I got no issue with this, it should happen.", ">\n\nI don't know how Trump supporters do it. I felt a bit of the proverbial gut punch after hearing about the second sets of documents. \nI couldn't imagine having to react to this shit day in and day out for what? 7 years? And way more serious than this. I mean just today I read dude wanted to nuke N Korea and blame another country. God bless em.", ">\n\nIt’s easy when you don’t have any principles to stand by", ">\n\nFrustrated with Trump, frustrated with Garland, frustrated with Biden for stepping right in it.\nPeople… get. Your shit. Together!!", ">\n\nI guarantee no matter how simple the DOJ or anyone puts this - Republicans will still be upset if Biden is not arrested and sent to Guantanamo. \nI got into a conversation with someone who said Biden should be impeached over this. I asked him why and he just said “because it’s fair.” How is it fair? The DOJ had not done their Investigation yet. Biden handed over the documents as soon as they found out and complied with the DOJ and NARA. Trump had to be subpoenaed and then STILL didn’t listen. Then the documents had to be retrieved by a raid from the FBI. \nThe difference is night and day it’s disgusting the things his cult followers try and say to spin this as if Biden is somehow the worst one.", ">\n\nConservatives don't argue or act in good faith", ">\n\nFfs\nIf this is anything like announcing an investigation, special counsel, etc.— anything that provides even the tiniest bit of cover for portraying the Biden situation as being equivalent to the Trump situation— I just. Fuck. The optics are awful. I hate this.\nAs I have found myself saying way more than I want to over the past several years: I hope I’m wrong.", ">\n\nIt does not seem to be equivalent at this point, but \"not equivalent\" does not equal \"not wrong,\" \"not irresponsible,\" or \"not dangerous for national security.\"", ">\n\nI think we can all agree that we need better handling of classified documents all around.", ">\n\nIf trump had returned the docs when he was first asked like biden did here, you know the DOJ would have just forgotten about it. But he didn't.\nLet's see if the DOJ understand nuance", ">\n\nNARA didn't ask for them. Biden team found them and returned the. NARA didn't seem to know they were missing.", ">\n\nRight? These were probably marked confidential and not secret or above. \nI’d be surprised if biden had top secret documents about our human intelligence assets or details about a foreign countries nuclear program.", ">\n\nCNN reported that a few of them were Top Secret and were intelligence briefings and memos re: Ukraine, Iran, and the UK", ">\n\nIf Biden's team hadn't told NARA about the documents and kept quiet nobody would know and there would be no special prosecutor. \nRemember kids, never do the right thing and you didn't see anything.", ">\n\nIt makes me feel sick to my stomach that a part of me would have preferred the lawyer who found them to just quietly shred them and take it to the grave.\nThis shouldn't be a cataclysmic deal. This should just be a review of NARA procedures and maybe some revoked security clearances from some aides. It's a scary accident that reveals vulnerabilities, not some malicious act.\nInstead, it's a massive political ammo dump for the GQP because everything about our government and legal system has two distinct standards, the stricter of which is only ever applied to Democrats.", ">\n\nArrest Trump. Investigate Biden. That's all I'm asking for. We know what Trump did, and we deserve to know what Biden did.", ">\n\nBingo. And it Trumps obstruction, witness tampering, and non cooperation is delaying getting to the bottom of what you are looking into how about they charge him for those crimes now. So far it’s only allowed him to escape justice by committing more crimes", ">\n\nYou know kudos to Bidens folks. He could've just burned these and nobody would've known. \nMorally good job.", ">\n\nA cover up would have been insane. At that point, Biden would be one whistleblower away from being impeached and maybe even convicted in the Senate.", ">\n\nThe pathetic Regressives astroturfing, pretending to be \"Biden fans\" is so fucking transparent it's disgusting. \nIf you don't understand the difference between this and the Trump case youre either a moron that has zero concept of anything related to the case or lying. Either way, shut the fuck up.", ">\n\nHey, they seem to know a thing or two about football.", ">\n\nSo let me guess, Biden is going to get impeached and Trump is going to walk.", ">\n\nYes. However Biden won't be removed by the Senate.", ">\n\nFucking Christ. \nShould Biden be investigated? Yes. \nBut maybe wait til you get through the first fucking one where literally everything has been handed to you on a golden fucking platter. The fact that the orange shitgibbon and his accomplices haven't been charged yet is pure fucking insanity. \nGarland is such a worthless, political piece of shit.", ">\n\nI hope that the DOJ has enough staff to conduct more than one investigation at a time", ">\n\nWhat else is there to investigate? It's been two years since Trump intentionally kept the documents. It's been five months since the search warrant was executed. It's been two months since a special counsel was appointed. \nPeople like you that pretend that some thorough investigation of Trump is occurring that just takes months and months are living in a fantasy land. \nThe special counsel will do the same thing Mueller did and release a report in a year stepping around how Trump committed serious felonies. The DOJ won't prosecute because it would be politicizing the department and that's the end of it.", ">\n\nfox news comment section seems to think that the documents were planted by the deep state to keep biden from running again, not sure the reasoning though", ">\n\nSo... they like the deep state now?", ">\n\nSee everybody, this is the difference from Trump. The Biden administration swiftly moved to cooperate with authorities and give up the documents and has so far been open about being investigated. The DOJ has also, as they should, operated independently of the WH and taken steps to investigate wrongdoing.\nYou can argue that \"See??? Biden is dirty too!!\", and while that hasn't been proven yet, he should definitely be investigated and if wrongdoing is found then he should be punished accordingly. However, you cannot argue that this situation is the same as Trump and that Biden and his admin has acted in the same manner regarding being probed like this, or that they have been openly and aggressively fighting back investigations in the manner Trump did. I hate using this word but if you sincerely believe that then you are OBJECTIVELY wrong: it is simply a lie to claim that.", ">\n\nMy guess is Garland is going to have the Trump appointed attorney he used for the first batch to lead the investigation of the files. He already turned in his findings for the first files", ">\n\n2024 is going to be a shit show huh? The GOP will never let this go. Biden just gave them the best ammo they could have ever wanted.", ">\n\nI'm not worried at all. It wasn't malicious and the population will forget about this in 3 months.\nPlus, now the investigation by the House will look stupid because of the special counsel.", ">\n\nHalf the population. The GOP are going to beat this to death for the next two years.", ">\n\nThey'll do that regardless, with or without a legit reason. They are masters at riling up their base. If this hadn't happened, they would just be screeching about Biden not putting ketchup on his steak or some crap.", ">\n\nWe need to turn this into a Diamond Joe scandal meme if it turns out to be ridiculous.", ">\n\nSome of those Playboys were labeled “Cl-ASS-ified” in Diamond Joe’s own handwriting.", ">\n\nExactly. I see the box of documents being like his old calendars that only saved because he liked the classic pictures of the corvettes they featured.", ">\n\nKeep your pants on everyone. This is going to be a trend. Next week its George Santos' turn.", ">\n\nAye, he’s probably got some juicy documents from his time as National Security Advisor to Reagan", ">\n\nsounds like every living former potus should start going through those boxes in their garages to make sure all the top secret stuff they apparently have stuffed away gets back to DC.", ">\n\nwhat happens if the House moves to impeach, and at the same time a resolution for the Speaker to vacate is introduced?", ">\n\nImpeachment is just procedural. It goes to the Senate for trial and Dems run the Senate. That being said, I expect the Republican house to impeach him 3 times so Trump is no longer the most impeached president in history. If McCarthy is removed then he will be replaced by another Republican. At most the impeachment will be delayed since a vote is required.", ">\n\nEven if they didn't run the Senate, no one is getting 67 votes to impeach anyone anytime soon.", ">\n\nI want to know the procedure for controlling classified documents such as daily briefings and other briefing packets? Seems to me they should keep records of who has them and when they were returned. The fact that they can just be forgotten about for years tells me there are some huge holes in the process.", ">\n\nYou would think…\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax. Needs some serious updating if shit like this keeps happening. \nYes, most “classified” material is boring but still.", ">\n\n\nI have no idea how the policies are this lax.\n\nI think you're under the impression that the national defense classification system is a more solid construct than it actually is. Its ad hoc nature is intentional as a tool of the executive branch, not a legislative mandate. It's basically the equivalent of a memo the boss sent out.\nIn short, it's this way because congress wants it this way.", ">\n\nA Trump appointed (up to ‘21) former prosecutor (Hur) is named, .. which should dispel doubts. Still doesn’t break in Cheeto Mussolini’s favor, as he actively hid the docs … vs.what seems likely an oversight by then VP Biden and/or staff at the time.\nMay actually hurt the GOP as it’ll empower Orange Jesus to more actively seek the ‘24 GOP slot, and nobody serious will use this to switch from D to R.", ">\n\n> Trump has 4 years + of criminality\nGarland: *Crickets*\n> Biden likely accidentally took classified material home and when it was discovered, immediately discloses it\nGarland: RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!", ">\n\nThe hypocrisy is blinding!!!", ">\n\nI mean, this absolutely needs to be investigated, but the speed is just hilariously hypocritical", ">\n\nI think the accelerated pace is due to the fuss that was made previously (and all the comments from the administration like “how could someone do this” and what not)", ">\n\nHe's going to announce the arrest and indictment of Joe Biden.\n\"But, sir, what about former president trump?\"\n\"...who?\"", ">\n\nI don't think he will get arrested but he will absolutely 100% face more backlash than Trump ever will for it. I strongly feel there's a higher probability that Hunter Biden situation leads to charges than an indictment for Trump. He is invincible.", ">\n\nBiden is going nuts on Twitter right now screaming about a witch hunt. CNN and MSNBC have dedicated the rest of the week to squealing about how unfair this is!\n...oh wait...nobody is doing that. Both sides, amirite?", ">\n\nHow are they already doing this for Biden and haven't done shit about Trump?", ">\n\nthey raided trumps house, forcibly took the documents in question, and they're considering charges against him. Biden's the current POTUS so that makes things more complicated as far as even starting an investigation goes.", ">\n\nTo be fair..\nThe raid occurred after months of stonewalling - and it only occurred because of that stonewalling - so this timeline is accelerated by comparison.", ">\n\nGet after those Biden documents. Lock'em up and throw away the key I tell ya.\nThe audacity of a political leader to take home classified documents especially after he left office. The audacity.\nRight Repubs?", ">\n\nI'm beginning to think that ex-office holders having classified docs isn't entirely unusual. Is it a problem? Yup. And are there difference between Trump and Biden's cases? Likely.\nBut after this I can't imagine the DOJ indicting Trump without very obvious evidence that he actually did something blatantly illegal and harmful with the docs. Otherwise, if this is a \"normal\" problem, they aren't going to set a precedent that could be reason to indict every former President/VP.", ">\n\nThe problem is this just feeds Fox News talking points and can fuel whataboutism. No one is going to bother looking at the difference in these two cases.", ">\n\nGQP be like We love special counsels now.", ">\n\nSpecial counsel for Biden. \nHey guys, is it just me or is the trump thing looking less and less like a witch hunt?", ">\n\nIt might be just you. It's never looked like a witch hunt at all.", ">\n\nThe Special Council is MAGA. JFC", ">\n\nI can't be the only one who don't care one bit. Trump got so many passes during his presidency. Biden could straight up admit to a crime on live television and I would be like \"Eh, you still got 15000 credit left.\"\nYep Trump supporters, that mentality is on you.", ">\n\nIf we could prevent a second Trump term by sacrificing Biden for the same offenses, would it be worth it?\nJoking aside, I'm of two minds here. Classified materials are classified materials, and I don't think Presidents can just declassify them by just thinking about it. On the other hand, I don't think the GOP can credibly dismiss Trump's actions and then turn around and demonize Biden for what is in essence the same thing.\nBig picture, though -- the folks whose job it is to keep track of classified materials sure don't seem to be doing a good job.", ">\n\nIt's not even remotely the \"same thing.\" \nAttorneys cleaning out an office discovered 10 documents and immediately notified the Nationa Archives and turned them over. \nTrump knowingly and intentionally kept nuclear secrets at a country club where god knows who had access, refused to return them when asked to, and sued the DoJ to recover them when they were taken in an early morning raid.", ">\n\nHow do you know what is in all the documents?", ">\n\nNews articles...", ">\n\nLove how so many people in this chat are instant experts on classified materials.\n/Former military CMS custodian with TS clearance, Clarence.", ">\n\nRoger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?", ">\n\nShirley, you can’t be serious?", ">\n\nGood, a special council was appointed, as it should be.\nThe same rules apply to everyone. As a lifelong Democrat I don't care if it means scrutinizing other Dems.\nLove him or hate him, James Comey had a clear set of guidelines used when talking about Hillary and her emails.\n\nAlthough there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past. In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.\n\nApply those to Trump and his mishandling. Apply it to Biden. Was there intent by both? Was there obstruction in the investigation? That's how we see if charges are required.\nApply those to Trump and Biden both and let the cards fall where they may.", ">\n\nHis guidelines were really to damage the Clinton candidacy, like the loyal Republican he was, and cover up for the FBI investigation into Trump. He did both. Comey did as much as anyone to get Trump elected. He was a GOP operative. Not a boy scout. I do think the Comey standard is going to be applied. Attack the dems, cover up for the cons.", ">\n\nSo much for \"the DOJ will speak through its court filings\" eh Merrick?", ">\n\nThe DOJ won't charge a sitting President so Biden is safe, fair or not.", ">\n\nThe DOJ won’t charge a sitting Republican President. Or non sitting Republican President either.", ">\n\nDo we need to do a search of the residencies/offices of former presidents Obama, Bush, Clinton and Carter while we're at it? How many other classified docs are just sitting in presidents' homes?", ">\n\nHonestly, probably. \nAlso need to come up with some new protocols so that the Gov can accurately track classified docs.", ">\n\nIt's interesting that he chose a former Trump appointee.", ">\n\nthat's pretty disgusting from my point of view.", ">\n\nwe're about to see the DOJ act so fast. look at this announcement. its comical.", ">\n\nThe only proper response to questions about this situation in the press briefing should be “Biden is cooperating fully. I refer you to the special counsel’s office for any further questions.” A slip up with answers or not taking this seriously will only fuel the GOP fire.", ">\n\nI mean, that exact response is easily spun against him as well.", ">\n\nThe distinction is cooperation and how NARA handled the job. Contrast that with Trump who obstructed.", ">\n\nWorth investigating. They are similar… but one is acting like a child about it and the other isn’t. Clearly different.\nGonna be annoying when the House decides to impeach him, then he gets acquitted… then impeached again….until either he’s re-elected or not.", ">\n\nNot “acting like a child”. Refused to return classified documents.", ">\n\nAnd then he was all \"Those aren't mine, you planted those, give me back my documents I have every right to them.\"\nGuys entire life is just flooding the zone with bullshit 24x7x365.", ">\n\nFucking Garland is way too late again, he let the media and Trump's cronies play with this enough to get the media cycle going. Unless it's an indictment he should just keep quiet. Biden really fucked up with that pick and it's going to burn us as a democracy in the process.", ">\n\nIt took Garland three solid months after a raid on Mar-A-Lago to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to investigate documents that the NARA had been attempting to get back for well over a year and a half. A move that served to undercut the ongoing DOJ investigation. \nIf Garland appoints a special counsel two days after a story about classified documents is published and two months after first learning about the document's existence in a move to make himself look impartial, then he is an unserious man doing a disservice to this country.", ">\n\nI want to remain politically engaged and even, sometimes, cautiously optimistic, but man it’s not easy", ">\n\nWe're a week away from Harris being able to take over the presidency and still be eligible for her own 2 terms. \nJust an interesting observation.", ">\n\nI want Biden to face consequences if found at fault.\nI want Trump to face consequences for his wrongdoing if found at fault.\nSimple.", ">\n\nAnd both are not the same.", ">\n\nFine, fuck it, arrest Biden and Trump. \nAll hail president Kamala Harris. \nThat'll placate the Republicans, right?", ">\n\nThese two situations are not at all similar. All this does is ensure that Trump will not be prosecuted.", ">\n\nThis is my feeling exactly. Garland never wanted to prosecute. Here's all the support he needs to \"not\" make that decision. Watch this special prosecutor recommend 25-years in prison... 🙄", ">\n\n2 Years for Trump, just days for Biden...\nFire Garland immediately.", ">\n\nTrump’s investigation has been going on since January 6th. The special counsel was only hired recently because Trump officially announced he was a presidential candidate, so they were removing the investigation from directly under the AG. But his investigation didn’t just start with the special counsel, it’s been going on. All that happened recently was a change in who is running the day to day, to avoid the perception of a political conflict. \nBiden got a special counsel from the start because he’s already a sitting president. And the AG he nominated/appointed shouldn’t be investigating him.", ">\n\nFuck Republicans", ">\n\nYou can say that it’s different than Trump which it is, but Biden done fucked up because now he lost the political capital on this story, especially with this story coming out at the moment Republicans take the House.", ">\n\nIm sure it wasn't a coincidence that it did come out when the Republicans took the house..", ">\n\nIt's a coincidence. This wasn't some surprise raid. Biden's team found the documents and he voluntarily turned them over to NARA.", ">\n\nIt’s become painfully obvious that the US is unable to keep track of classified documents held by Presidents and VPs, regardless of their intentions (accidental or intentional). Time to tighten up the procedures and bookkeeping around classified docs given to top executive branch officials.", ">\n\nThis is going to be a loooong year and it’s only 2023", ">\n\nNot sure who this is, but now some asswipe is grilling the Press Sec about this whole thing as if it's the next Watergate. It's disgraceful.", ">\n\nWhat if its just the recipe for Krabby Patties lol", ">\n\nReason 612 as to why Biden should have fired Merrick Garland a year ago. This is a joke at this point. Garland appoints a Trumpian prosecutor to look into the Biden documents and at the same time is looking to drop the investigation into Trump's stealing of classified documents. Reminder that Merrick Garland is a member of the Federalist Society.", ">\n\nWhat suggests Garland is dropping the Trump case?", ">\n\nMostly impatient people on the internet, nothing else.", ">\n\nThis country is an absolute joke", ">\n\nAs a Brit, wtf is going on over there nowadays? You guys sure love a big political drama to start the year off.", ">\n\nYeah you should be more like Britain, which is devoid of political drama 😂", ">\n\nGoddammit, Biden.", ">\n\nI missed it. Are they looking into Biden’s handling of classified documents? Not against it as long as they’re looking into Trump’s too.", ">\n\nTrump's were already being looked into. This is a new SC just for Biden and his staff.", ">\n\nAt this point there have been so many councilors that I don't think we can call them \"special\" anymore. \nI petition to rename them \"regular councils\"", ">\n\nSo... we're gonna treat both sides equally... good.", ">\n\nAs long as it's based on the severity of the crime and accountability actually takes place, then yes, good.", ">\n\nI don't think there's any real possiblity of Biden being in legal trouble as long as he wasn't misleading the government on these documents. Even before we knew about this, experts were saying that Trump's issue wasn't so much the taking of documents but his refusal to give them back. Its the lying that the government has an issue with from Trump moreso the taking of documents in the first place. \nSo far this seems like it will create more of a political headache for Biden and the DOJ than anything else. I'm not sure if that's something Jack Smith and the DOJ will take into account though. In the end the actions of Biden and Trump are completely separate and need to be treated as such. One doesn't somehow cancel out the other.", ">\n\nJack Smith doesn't have anything to do with anything except the investigations into Trump. I agree this is unfortunate and not at all the same as what Trump did and is still doing, but it's going to be a mess.", ">\n\nOf course... We go centuries without this shit being an issue and as soon as Trump gets raked over the coals on this substantial breach of national security, Biden ends up in possession of classified documents as well. Even if the Biden docs turn up to be nothing, I'm tempted to just feign a conspiracy theory that Trump planted the Biden classified docs cuz that's exactly what the Republicans would do if the roles were reversed. So annoying.", ">\n\nWas ignoring Hillary’s mishandling if classified documents intentionally ignored? Kind of happened pre-Trump.", ">\n\nLikely that nothing happens to Trump or Biden at this point. Only hope is the Georgia state prosecutor indicting Trump.", ">\n\nWe've had one, yes. What about a second special counsel?", ">\n\nHoping for a great compromise where Biden resigns, Trump is barred from office, and America finally stops electing Boomers", ">\n\nBiden isn't a Boomer, though.", ">\n\nThat's even worse lol", ">\n\nIts fair to say this is a massive own goal for biden and gives trumpy a easy out", ">\n\nHe already gave Trump an easy out by appointing Garland in the first place.", ">\n\nFuck Trump", ">\n\nWell worst case scenario biden gets impeached. Which doesn't really mean anything so who cares lol.\nI'm at the point where I don't really care if my side is corrupt, I just want the left to win so right wing Christian nationalism doesn't prevail.", ">\n\nObama just keeps looking better and better!", ">\n\nTo be fair, nobody's checked his garage yet.\nOr have they...", ">\n\nYou know Obama ain't slippin'.", ">\n\nStill can't believe Sleepy Joe fucked up like this. \nSomething that couldn't make Republicans happier. *smh", ">\n\nMaybe like Clinton, Trump and Biden are just extremely careless.\n\nAlthough we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.", ">\n\nComey was a MAGA hack and a seditioninst before it was cool. He purposefully sunk Clinton's candidacy", ">\n\nJust like Garland investigating Trump, nothing will happen. Weak ass AG", ">\n\nThere is fully no evidence that \"nothing will happen\" with Mr. Trump's investigation.", ">\n\n\"How could anyone be that irresponsible?\" - Joe Biden", ">\n\nRemind me again what was supposed to happen with the Comey special counsel? Maybe some criminal charges? It certainly wasn't ever going to lead to an impeachment/removal because the 2/3 Senate vote needed will likely never happen with anybody, since the majority party usually stays within 50-60%\nThis is so much less heinous so I'm not really tripping but this could get worse if more shit starts being found.", ">\n\nDoes anyone actually know what decurity classification these documents actually were / are?", ">\n\nNo, we don’t know what level of classified they were.", ">\n\nSame rules for both sides should be the standard.", ">\n\nDon't fear accountability and oversight. It's easy to say \"the Republicans refuse to cooperate with investigations and they don't care about holding their own accountable so why should we?\". The reason why we should is because we are better than the Republicans. If we acted with total disdain for the rule of law as they do then everything would fall apart. \nI know it can be frustrating to always be the mature ones and always have to take the high road but if we don't then no one will. That's not an America that any of us would want to live in.", ">\n\nGoddamit, Biden.", ">\n\nI don't know what this will be but Biden is an all-around good guy, and I stand by that. If he has done anything wrong, it won't have been with malicious or dubious intentions. It will be more of a dumbass move if anything else. \nI also think he's once in a generation type of leader/president. Both things can be true. It's kinda his thing in a way. He's Diamond Joe.", ">\n\nHow hard is it not to bring classified documents home with you?", ">\n\nThe first set of documents included briefing materials, so it's possible these were brought to the then-VP's residence for a briefing there. Not everything with a classified marking is kept in a SCIF.", ">\n\nWhy do I feel this is a hit piece to distract from Trump? The timing is just so fucking odd. Every day now they randomly find a new batch to Biden's surprise. \nWho is planting them?", ">\n\nStop. Just stop. Biden can break laws just like Trump, perhaps not as much, but it still happens. Democrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.", ">\n\n\nDemocrats need to hold ALL politicians to the same standard.\n\nSo when Republicans don't give a shit about corruption on their side democrats need to be the bigger people here? Fuck that.\nTrump had some sort of law breaking scandal every 5 minutes and none of his base cared. Why should I care about this?", ">\n\nA lot of people are comparing this to Trump. The two situations aren’t mutually exclusive. Both of them fucked up on different levels and both should be held accountable.", ">\n\nVastly different levels.", ">\n\nHopefully they go into as much detail as possible about what info was included in docs. \nLots of info is classified for a variety of reasons. Severity of punishment (if any) should reflect that.", ">\n\nPeople's minds are blown away when they realize being compliant and open about classified documents might actually not result in an FBI raid.", ">\n\nI totally agree that there is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases. That said, I am assuming that classified docs are expected to be handled a certain way and clearly this was not done by either. Biden fucked up and took multiple classified docs to what seems now several diff locations. Nefarious or not, he handled them the wrong way which is not good for all the reasons that docs next to a corvette or in a storage closet at Marilago are..", ">\n\n\nthere is a bit of a difference in both Trump's and Biden's cases\n\nDude Trump took 350 high level classified docs and when asked to return them refused then lied a then obstructed. \nBiden has under 15 from his 35+ years in senior government.", ">\n\nTrump also claimed nine were his personal property and demanded they be returned to him. \nAnd it wasn't just documents, he took items such as presidential gifts that are property of the National Archives, unless he purchased them.", ">\n\nThis is a get out of jail free card for Trump.", ">\n\nIf Biden goes to jail for it, it makes a pretty good case that Trump should go to jail as well. Especially because the Trump issue is the Biden issue PLUS actively trying to obstruct the government from getting its own documents back.", ">\n\nWorth noting that some official residences are, in fact, accredited for the use and storage of classified information.\nThe FAQ is just assuming the question asker is not one of the few exceptions.", ">\n\nI'm a conservative and I gotta give props to Garland and the DOJ for doing this.\nHope the GOP can show this level of fairness and professionalism y'all can respect as well.", ">\n\nI got some news for you", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what the nuance of this issue is, Democrats have lost all talking points because all Republicans are going to make Americans believe is that Biden had classified docs, same as Trump.\nIt’s unfair that this is what politics is like these days but here we are." ]

[]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland" ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good." ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again." ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world." ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D" ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse." ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol" ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?" ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?", ">\n\nfrom what i remember so long as their trimmed, unobtrusive and still allow them to wear the gas/etc masks with full seal german command allows it" ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?", ">\n\nfrom what i remember so long as their trimmed, unobtrusive and still allow them to wear the gas/etc masks with full seal german command allows it", ">\n\nTanks, but no Tanks." ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?", ">\n\nfrom what i remember so long as their trimmed, unobtrusive and still allow them to wear the gas/etc masks with full seal german command allows it", ">\n\nTanks, but no Tanks.", ">\n\nI'm becoming increasingly angry that my government has not stepped up to provide Canada's Leopards to Ukraine. \nWhere even are they? If they are in Canada, which I think is the case, what use are they here? Deterring an invasion by the Americans?? It's absurd in these circumstances that those tanks are not either in Ukraine or part of a deterrent force in the Suwalki Gap. Aging in Canada makes them an utterly wasted investment." ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?", ">\n\nfrom what i remember so long as their trimmed, unobtrusive and still allow them to wear the gas/etc masks with full seal german command allows it", ">\n\nTanks, but no Tanks.", ">\n\nI'm becoming increasingly angry that my government has not stepped up to provide Canada's Leopards to Ukraine. \nWhere even are they? If they are in Canada, which I think is the case, what use are they here? Deterring an invasion by the Americans?? It's absurd in these circumstances that those tanks are not either in Ukraine or part of a deterrent force in the Suwalki Gap. Aging in Canada makes them an utterly wasted investment.", ">\n\nThe problem with Canada sending them is shipping. Only your neighbor can do that realistically in good time. Your neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. Not likely anyone WOULD attack canada, no one wants to fight your neighbor already. What Canada should do is just buy old stock m1's like poland did. They're more advanced than the leopard's canada actually has(they purchased some pretty old models of the leopard) and well.. sadly cheaper. Upgraded M1A1 and newly built M1A2's are ... surprisingly economical. Then they can just tie in transport and delivery of the leopards as the only country REALLY capable of transporting those 82 leopards in short order is the same person they should probably buy new tanks from." ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?", ">\n\nfrom what i remember so long as their trimmed, unobtrusive and still allow them to wear the gas/etc masks with full seal german command allows it", ">\n\nTanks, but no Tanks.", ">\n\nI'm becoming increasingly angry that my government has not stepped up to provide Canada's Leopards to Ukraine. \nWhere even are they? If they are in Canada, which I think is the case, what use are they here? Deterring an invasion by the Americans?? It's absurd in these circumstances that those tanks are not either in Ukraine or part of a deterrent force in the Suwalki Gap. Aging in Canada makes them an utterly wasted investment.", ">\n\nThe problem with Canada sending them is shipping. Only your neighbor can do that realistically in good time. Your neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. Not likely anyone WOULD attack canada, no one wants to fight your neighbor already. What Canada should do is just buy old stock m1's like poland did. They're more advanced than the leopard's canada actually has(they purchased some pretty old models of the leopard) and well.. sadly cheaper. Upgraded M1A1 and newly built M1A2's are ... surprisingly economical. Then they can just tie in transport and delivery of the leopards as the only country REALLY capable of transporting those 82 leopards in short order is the same person they should probably buy new tanks from.", ">\n\n\nYour neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. \n\nWhat exactly do you mean by this strange assertion?" ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?", ">\n\nfrom what i remember so long as their trimmed, unobtrusive and still allow them to wear the gas/etc masks with full seal german command allows it", ">\n\nTanks, but no Tanks.", ">\n\nI'm becoming increasingly angry that my government has not stepped up to provide Canada's Leopards to Ukraine. \nWhere even are they? If they are in Canada, which I think is the case, what use are they here? Deterring an invasion by the Americans?? It's absurd in these circumstances that those tanks are not either in Ukraine or part of a deterrent force in the Suwalki Gap. Aging in Canada makes them an utterly wasted investment.", ">\n\nThe problem with Canada sending them is shipping. Only your neighbor can do that realistically in good time. Your neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. Not likely anyone WOULD attack canada, no one wants to fight your neighbor already. What Canada should do is just buy old stock m1's like poland did. They're more advanced than the leopard's canada actually has(they purchased some pretty old models of the leopard) and well.. sadly cheaper. Upgraded M1A1 and newly built M1A2's are ... surprisingly economical. Then they can just tie in transport and delivery of the leopards as the only country REALLY capable of transporting those 82 leopards in short order is the same person they should probably buy new tanks from.", ">\n\n\nYour neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. \n\nWhat exactly do you mean by this strange assertion?", ">\n\nCanada has a small population, large territory, and most of it is ALREADY patrolled by the US." ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?", ">\n\nfrom what i remember so long as their trimmed, unobtrusive and still allow them to wear the gas/etc masks with full seal german command allows it", ">\n\nTanks, but no Tanks.", ">\n\nI'm becoming increasingly angry that my government has not stepped up to provide Canada's Leopards to Ukraine. \nWhere even are they? If they are in Canada, which I think is the case, what use are they here? Deterring an invasion by the Americans?? It's absurd in these circumstances that those tanks are not either in Ukraine or part of a deterrent force in the Suwalki Gap. Aging in Canada makes them an utterly wasted investment.", ">\n\nThe problem with Canada sending them is shipping. Only your neighbor can do that realistically in good time. Your neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. Not likely anyone WOULD attack canada, no one wants to fight your neighbor already. What Canada should do is just buy old stock m1's like poland did. They're more advanced than the leopard's canada actually has(they purchased some pretty old models of the leopard) and well.. sadly cheaper. Upgraded M1A1 and newly built M1A2's are ... surprisingly economical. Then they can just tie in transport and delivery of the leopards as the only country REALLY capable of transporting those 82 leopards in short order is the same person they should probably buy new tanks from.", ">\n\n\nYour neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. \n\nWhat exactly do you mean by this strange assertion?", ">\n\nCanada has a small population, large territory, and most of it is ALREADY patrolled by the US.", ">\n\nIt would be delusional to believe \"most\" of Canada is patrolled by the U.S. Maybe for someone who spends their days in fantasy games the notion that a foreign power invests vast resources to \"patrol\" another country's territory makes sense, but in the real world not only would such \"help\" be unwelcome, it would be actively resisted.\nHeck, Canada expends resources tracking U.S. submarines violating our territorial waters, just to maintain our sovereignty claims. The Americans keep doing it because they want to undermine those claims for commercial and political reasons. It's a kind of friendly antagonism that has existed for many decades.\nBut if you prefer a fanciful game, that's fine too." ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?", ">\n\nfrom what i remember so long as their trimmed, unobtrusive and still allow them to wear the gas/etc masks with full seal german command allows it", ">\n\nTanks, but no Tanks.", ">\n\nI'm becoming increasingly angry that my government has not stepped up to provide Canada's Leopards to Ukraine. \nWhere even are they? If they are in Canada, which I think is the case, what use are they here? Deterring an invasion by the Americans?? It's absurd in these circumstances that those tanks are not either in Ukraine or part of a deterrent force in the Suwalki Gap. Aging in Canada makes them an utterly wasted investment.", ">\n\nThe problem with Canada sending them is shipping. Only your neighbor can do that realistically in good time. Your neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. Not likely anyone WOULD attack canada, no one wants to fight your neighbor already. What Canada should do is just buy old stock m1's like poland did. They're more advanced than the leopard's canada actually has(they purchased some pretty old models of the leopard) and well.. sadly cheaper. Upgraded M1A1 and newly built M1A2's are ... surprisingly economical. Then they can just tie in transport and delivery of the leopards as the only country REALLY capable of transporting those 82 leopards in short order is the same person they should probably buy new tanks from.", ">\n\n\nYour neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. \n\nWhat exactly do you mean by this strange assertion?", ">\n\nCanada has a small population, large territory, and most of it is ALREADY patrolled by the US.", ">\n\nIt would be delusional to believe \"most\" of Canada is patrolled by the U.S. Maybe for someone who spends their days in fantasy games the notion that a foreign power invests vast resources to \"patrol\" another country's territory makes sense, but in the real world not only would such \"help\" be unwelcome, it would be actively resisted.\nHeck, Canada expends resources tracking U.S. submarines violating our territorial waters, just to maintain our sovereignty claims. The Americans keep doing it because they want to undermine those claims for commercial and political reasons. It's a kind of friendly antagonism that has existed for many decades.\nBut if you prefer a fanciful game, that's fine too.", ">\n\n\nThe Americans keep doing it because they want to undermine those claims for commercial and political reasons.\n\nYou're either extremely dumb or believe crazy conspiracy theories. The US hangs out in the northern areas because they're patrolling a place Canada can't. Via air and Sea they patrol, openly. It's not a secret like.. at all. The are spotted because they're ACTIVELY searching, not trying to hide. They're patrolling because Canada can't, you literally just don't have the equipment. Hate to break this to you, but Canada has very little population, and honestly is a fairly weak country in a military sense especially compared to land mass. They have no capability to patrol the territorial claims." ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?", ">\n\nfrom what i remember so long as their trimmed, unobtrusive and still allow them to wear the gas/etc masks with full seal german command allows it", ">\n\nTanks, but no Tanks.", ">\n\nI'm becoming increasingly angry that my government has not stepped up to provide Canada's Leopards to Ukraine. \nWhere even are they? If they are in Canada, which I think is the case, what use are they here? Deterring an invasion by the Americans?? It's absurd in these circumstances that those tanks are not either in Ukraine or part of a deterrent force in the Suwalki Gap. Aging in Canada makes them an utterly wasted investment.", ">\n\nThe problem with Canada sending them is shipping. Only your neighbor can do that realistically in good time. Your neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. Not likely anyone WOULD attack canada, no one wants to fight your neighbor already. What Canada should do is just buy old stock m1's like poland did. They're more advanced than the leopard's canada actually has(they purchased some pretty old models of the leopard) and well.. sadly cheaper. Upgraded M1A1 and newly built M1A2's are ... surprisingly economical. Then they can just tie in transport and delivery of the leopards as the only country REALLY capable of transporting those 82 leopards in short order is the same person they should probably buy new tanks from.", ">\n\n\nYour neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. \n\nWhat exactly do you mean by this strange assertion?", ">\n\nCanada has a small population, large territory, and most of it is ALREADY patrolled by the US.", ">\n\nIt would be delusional to believe \"most\" of Canada is patrolled by the U.S. Maybe for someone who spends their days in fantasy games the notion that a foreign power invests vast resources to \"patrol\" another country's territory makes sense, but in the real world not only would such \"help\" be unwelcome, it would be actively resisted.\nHeck, Canada expends resources tracking U.S. submarines violating our territorial waters, just to maintain our sovereignty claims. The Americans keep doing it because they want to undermine those claims for commercial and political reasons. It's a kind of friendly antagonism that has existed for many decades.\nBut if you prefer a fanciful game, that's fine too.", ">\n\n\nThe Americans keep doing it because they want to undermine those claims for commercial and political reasons.\n\nYou're either extremely dumb or believe crazy conspiracy theories. The US hangs out in the northern areas because they're patrolling a place Canada can't. Via air and Sea they patrol, openly. It's not a secret like.. at all. The are spotted because they're ACTIVELY searching, not trying to hide. They're patrolling because Canada can't, you literally just don't have the equipment. Hate to break this to you, but Canada has very little population, and honestly is a fairly weak country in a military sense especially compared to land mass. They have no capability to patrol the territorial claims.", ">\n\nI'm pretty confident I know more about what's happening in Canada's North, but I'm not going to get into a name-calling tiff with someone who only thinks they understand, because what, they are immersed in video games? or something. Transmission ended." ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?", ">\n\nfrom what i remember so long as their trimmed, unobtrusive and still allow them to wear the gas/etc masks with full seal german command allows it", ">\n\nTanks, but no Tanks.", ">\n\nI'm becoming increasingly angry that my government has not stepped up to provide Canada's Leopards to Ukraine. \nWhere even are they? If they are in Canada, which I think is the case, what use are they here? Deterring an invasion by the Americans?? It's absurd in these circumstances that those tanks are not either in Ukraine or part of a deterrent force in the Suwalki Gap. Aging in Canada makes them an utterly wasted investment.", ">\n\nThe problem with Canada sending them is shipping. Only your neighbor can do that realistically in good time. Your neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. Not likely anyone WOULD attack canada, no one wants to fight your neighbor already. What Canada should do is just buy old stock m1's like poland did. They're more advanced than the leopard's canada actually has(they purchased some pretty old models of the leopard) and well.. sadly cheaper. Upgraded M1A1 and newly built M1A2's are ... surprisingly economical. Then they can just tie in transport and delivery of the leopards as the only country REALLY capable of transporting those 82 leopards in short order is the same person they should probably buy new tanks from.", ">\n\n\nYour neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. \n\nWhat exactly do you mean by this strange assertion?", ">\n\nCanada has a small population, large territory, and most of it is ALREADY patrolled by the US.", ">\n\nIt would be delusional to believe \"most\" of Canada is patrolled by the U.S. Maybe for someone who spends their days in fantasy games the notion that a foreign power invests vast resources to \"patrol\" another country's territory makes sense, but in the real world not only would such \"help\" be unwelcome, it would be actively resisted.\nHeck, Canada expends resources tracking U.S. submarines violating our territorial waters, just to maintain our sovereignty claims. The Americans keep doing it because they want to undermine those claims for commercial and political reasons. It's a kind of friendly antagonism that has existed for many decades.\nBut if you prefer a fanciful game, that's fine too.", ">\n\n\nThe Americans keep doing it because they want to undermine those claims for commercial and political reasons.\n\nYou're either extremely dumb or believe crazy conspiracy theories. The US hangs out in the northern areas because they're patrolling a place Canada can't. Via air and Sea they patrol, openly. It's not a secret like.. at all. The are spotted because they're ACTIVELY searching, not trying to hide. They're patrolling because Canada can't, you literally just don't have the equipment. Hate to break this to you, but Canada has very little population, and honestly is a fairly weak country in a military sense especially compared to land mass. They have no capability to patrol the territorial claims.", ">\n\nI'm pretty confident I know more about what's happening in Canada's North, but I'm not going to get into a name-calling tiff with someone who only thinks they understand, because what, they are immersed in video games? or something. Transmission ended.", ">\n\nYou're weirdly obsessed with video games bruh." ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?", ">\n\nfrom what i remember so long as their trimmed, unobtrusive and still allow them to wear the gas/etc masks with full seal german command allows it", ">\n\nTanks, but no Tanks.", ">\n\nI'm becoming increasingly angry that my government has not stepped up to provide Canada's Leopards to Ukraine. \nWhere even are they? If they are in Canada, which I think is the case, what use are they here? Deterring an invasion by the Americans?? It's absurd in these circumstances that those tanks are not either in Ukraine or part of a deterrent force in the Suwalki Gap. Aging in Canada makes them an utterly wasted investment.", ">\n\nThe problem with Canada sending them is shipping. Only your neighbor can do that realistically in good time. Your neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. Not likely anyone WOULD attack canada, no one wants to fight your neighbor already. What Canada should do is just buy old stock m1's like poland did. They're more advanced than the leopard's canada actually has(they purchased some pretty old models of the leopard) and well.. sadly cheaper. Upgraded M1A1 and newly built M1A2's are ... surprisingly economical. Then they can just tie in transport and delivery of the leopards as the only country REALLY capable of transporting those 82 leopards in short order is the same person they should probably buy new tanks from.", ">\n\n\nYour neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. \n\nWhat exactly do you mean by this strange assertion?", ">\n\nCanada has a small population, large territory, and most of it is ALREADY patrolled by the US.", ">\n\nIt would be delusional to believe \"most\" of Canada is patrolled by the U.S. Maybe for someone who spends their days in fantasy games the notion that a foreign power invests vast resources to \"patrol\" another country's territory makes sense, but in the real world not only would such \"help\" be unwelcome, it would be actively resisted.\nHeck, Canada expends resources tracking U.S. submarines violating our territorial waters, just to maintain our sovereignty claims. The Americans keep doing it because they want to undermine those claims for commercial and political reasons. It's a kind of friendly antagonism that has existed for many decades.\nBut if you prefer a fanciful game, that's fine too.", ">\n\n\nThe Americans keep doing it because they want to undermine those claims for commercial and political reasons.\n\nYou're either extremely dumb or believe crazy conspiracy theories. The US hangs out in the northern areas because they're patrolling a place Canada can't. Via air and Sea they patrol, openly. It's not a secret like.. at all. The are spotted because they're ACTIVELY searching, not trying to hide. They're patrolling because Canada can't, you literally just don't have the equipment. Hate to break this to you, but Canada has very little population, and honestly is a fairly weak country in a military sense especially compared to land mass. They have no capability to patrol the territorial claims.", ">\n\nI'm pretty confident I know more about what's happening in Canada's North, but I'm not going to get into a name-calling tiff with someone who only thinks they understand, because what, they are immersed in video games? or something. Transmission ended.", ">\n\nYou're weirdly obsessed with video games bruh.", ">\n\nHe's right though" ]

[ "Don't send them through Switzerland", ">\n\nMan, I just checked in horror who manufactures the missiles for their anti tank MILAN system. Not Switzerland, as far as wiki says, so that's good.", ">\n\nBig shoutout to Greece for agreeing to wait on some of their promised Marders so Ukraine gets them first! Especially with Turkey (or Türkye) ramping up threats again.", ">\n\n\nTurkey (or Türkye)\n\nYou can call it however you like, but in English it's just 'Turkey'. They only asked the UN to officially refer to them as 'Türkye', not the English-speaking world.", ">\n\nyeah, was more of a joke. Obviously, as a german, I expect all of you to be able to pronounce \"Nordrhein-Westpfahlen\", \"Rheinland-Pfalz\" and \"Baden-Württemberg\" perfectly from now on :D", ">\n\nSometimes I really hate German.\nI tried learning it a while back, did semi decently but could never understand some of the grammar rules. I went onto Norwegian and now Dutch (I jumped around a bit trying to find something I felt I could do). I finally settled for Dutch but I’m starting to realise that German isn’t the weird and broken language. English is.\nGerman definitely still seems weird, but English is so much worse.", ">\n\nGerman is quite logical once you got the hang of it - not many exceptions, but a lot of rules and a very broad vocabulary. Biggest problem for most of my german-learning friends is the pronounciation, like the \"ch\" and the \"ts\" - very hard consonants, hence we sound angry lol", ">\n\nOff-topic but i guess Germany allows soldiers to grow beards? Because two of the dudes in this photo have really kickass beards. Isn’t that unusual or not allowed in the army in most places?", ">\n\nfrom what i remember so long as their trimmed, unobtrusive and still allow them to wear the gas/etc masks with full seal german command allows it", ">\n\nTanks, but no Tanks.", ">\n\nI'm becoming increasingly angry that my government has not stepped up to provide Canada's Leopards to Ukraine. \nWhere even are they? If they are in Canada, which I think is the case, what use are they here? Deterring an invasion by the Americans?? It's absurd in these circumstances that those tanks are not either in Ukraine or part of a deterrent force in the Suwalki Gap. Aging in Canada makes them an utterly wasted investment.", ">\n\nThe problem with Canada sending them is shipping. Only your neighbor can do that realistically in good time. Your neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. Not likely anyone WOULD attack canada, no one wants to fight your neighbor already. What Canada should do is just buy old stock m1's like poland did. They're more advanced than the leopard's canada actually has(they purchased some pretty old models of the leopard) and well.. sadly cheaper. Upgraded M1A1 and newly built M1A2's are ... surprisingly economical. Then they can just tie in transport and delivery of the leopards as the only country REALLY capable of transporting those 82 leopards in short order is the same person they should probably buy new tanks from.", ">\n\n\nYour neighbor would also have to take over another portion of your territorial defenses. \n\nWhat exactly do you mean by this strange assertion?", ">\n\nCanada has a small population, large territory, and most of it is ALREADY patrolled by the US.", ">\n\nIt would be delusional to believe \"most\" of Canada is patrolled by the U.S. Maybe for someone who spends their days in fantasy games the notion that a foreign power invests vast resources to \"patrol\" another country's territory makes sense, but in the real world not only would such \"help\" be unwelcome, it would be actively resisted.\nHeck, Canada expends resources tracking U.S. submarines violating our territorial waters, just to maintain our sovereignty claims. The Americans keep doing it because they want to undermine those claims for commercial and political reasons. It's a kind of friendly antagonism that has existed for many decades.\nBut if you prefer a fanciful game, that's fine too.", ">\n\n\nThe Americans keep doing it because they want to undermine those claims for commercial and political reasons.\n\nYou're either extremely dumb or believe crazy conspiracy theories. The US hangs out in the northern areas because they're patrolling a place Canada can't. Via air and Sea they patrol, openly. It's not a secret like.. at all. The are spotted because they're ACTIVELY searching, not trying to hide. They're patrolling because Canada can't, you literally just don't have the equipment. Hate to break this to you, but Canada has very little population, and honestly is a fairly weak country in a military sense especially compared to land mass. They have no capability to patrol the territorial claims.", ">\n\nI'm pretty confident I know more about what's happening in Canada's North, but I'm not going to get into a name-calling tiff with someone who only thinks they understand, because what, they are immersed in video games? or something. Transmission ended.", ">\n\nYou're weirdly obsessed with video games bruh.", ">\n\nHe's right though", ">\n\nThe 21st century is ridiculous. The whole world is sending their military to Ukraine to fight against Russia but God forbid we actually do anything immediate. Let's just drag this out as long as possible." ]