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Did you read the article?
The IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.
Audit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.
Starved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”
Last year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.
The House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average. | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?"
] |
>
I didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average."
] |
>
That's a big claim to make.
Occam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious. | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people"
] |
>
The best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.
I don't think you're malicious, either. | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious."
] |
>
What do you think systemic racism is?
Despite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).
...
Black taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits
What is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an "appearance" of systemic racism. It is an example.
The only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either."
] |
>
That does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism. | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes"
] |
>
This way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money. | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism."
] |
>
Biden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be "why?" Or "why won't ANYONE say anything?" | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money."
] |
>
Why would you say something like that | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\""
] |
>
Because they question any black person making more money than they think they should. | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that"
] |
>
Really, and you are worried about the GOP did not say something. Not saying something is an absence of knowledge not an opinion. Are you buying this bogeyman argument. Biden just beefed it up with up to 87K more agents. Didn't some crazies in the GOP just propose eliminating it with a flat VAT tax? | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that",
">\n\nBecause they question any black person making more money than they think they should."
] |
>
"That's our bag, baby, yeah!" | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that",
">\n\nBecause they question any black person making more money than they think they should.",
">\n\nReally, and you are worried about the GOP did not say something. Not saying something is an absence of knowledge not an opinion. Are you buying this bogeyman argument. Biden just beefed it up with up to 87K more agents. Didn't some crazies in the GOP just propose eliminating it with a flat VAT tax?"
] |
>
Can we eliminate the IRS yet? | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that",
">\n\nBecause they question any black person making more money than they think they should.",
">\n\nReally, and you are worried about the GOP did not say something. Not saying something is an absence of knowledge not an opinion. Are you buying this bogeyman argument. Biden just beefed it up with up to 87K more agents. Didn't some crazies in the GOP just propose eliminating it with a flat VAT tax?",
">\n\n\"That's our bag, baby, yeah!\""
] |
>
Just learning the IRS is too powerful? | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that",
">\n\nBecause they question any black person making more money than they think they should.",
">\n\nReally, and you are worried about the GOP did not say something. Not saying something is an absence of knowledge not an opinion. Are you buying this bogeyman argument. Biden just beefed it up with up to 87K more agents. Didn't some crazies in the GOP just propose eliminating it with a flat VAT tax?",
">\n\n\"That's our bag, baby, yeah!\"",
">\n\nCan we eliminate the IRS yet?"
] |
>
So the GOP created a racist algorithm? Nice | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that",
">\n\nBecause they question any black person making more money than they think they should.",
">\n\nReally, and you are worried about the GOP did not say something. Not saying something is an absence of knowledge not an opinion. Are you buying this bogeyman argument. Biden just beefed it up with up to 87K more agents. Didn't some crazies in the GOP just propose eliminating it with a flat VAT tax?",
">\n\n\"That's our bag, baby, yeah!\"",
">\n\nCan we eliminate the IRS yet?",
">\n\nJust learning the IRS is too powerful?"
] |
>
How is this the GOPs fault? I seriously don’t get it | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that",
">\n\nBecause they question any black person making more money than they think they should.",
">\n\nReally, and you are worried about the GOP did not say something. Not saying something is an absence of knowledge not an opinion. Are you buying this bogeyman argument. Biden just beefed it up with up to 87K more agents. Didn't some crazies in the GOP just propose eliminating it with a flat VAT tax?",
">\n\n\"That's our bag, baby, yeah!\"",
">\n\nCan we eliminate the IRS yet?",
">\n\nJust learning the IRS is too powerful?",
">\n\nSo the GOP created a racist algorithm? Nice"
] |
>
It's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all. It's an algorithm developed by the IRS. | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that",
">\n\nBecause they question any black person making more money than they think they should.",
">\n\nReally, and you are worried about the GOP did not say something. Not saying something is an absence of knowledge not an opinion. Are you buying this bogeyman argument. Biden just beefed it up with up to 87K more agents. Didn't some crazies in the GOP just propose eliminating it with a flat VAT tax?",
">\n\n\"That's our bag, baby, yeah!\"",
">\n\nCan we eliminate the IRS yet?",
">\n\nJust learning the IRS is too powerful?",
">\n\nSo the GOP created a racist algorithm? Nice",
">\n\nHow is this the GOPs fault? I seriously don’t get it"
] |
>
Wasn’t it the GOP that wants to defund the IRS? Isn’t it the Biden admin trying to hire 80k new employees for the IRS?? It’s like we live in different worlds | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that",
">\n\nBecause they question any black person making more money than they think they should.",
">\n\nReally, and you are worried about the GOP did not say something. Not saying something is an absence of knowledge not an opinion. Are you buying this bogeyman argument. Biden just beefed it up with up to 87K more agents. Didn't some crazies in the GOP just propose eliminating it with a flat VAT tax?",
">\n\n\"That's our bag, baby, yeah!\"",
">\n\nCan we eliminate the IRS yet?",
">\n\nJust learning the IRS is too powerful?",
">\n\nSo the GOP created a racist algorithm? Nice",
">\n\nHow is this the GOPs fault? I seriously don’t get it",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all. It's an algorithm developed by the IRS."
] |
>
Only because you apparently didn't read any of the articles about that then. The glut of extra IRS was for the wealthy. | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that",
">\n\nBecause they question any black person making more money than they think they should.",
">\n\nReally, and you are worried about the GOP did not say something. Not saying something is an absence of knowledge not an opinion. Are you buying this bogeyman argument. Biden just beefed it up with up to 87K more agents. Didn't some crazies in the GOP just propose eliminating it with a flat VAT tax?",
">\n\n\"That's our bag, baby, yeah!\"",
">\n\nCan we eliminate the IRS yet?",
">\n\nJust learning the IRS is too powerful?",
">\n\nSo the GOP created a racist algorithm? Nice",
">\n\nHow is this the GOPs fault? I seriously don’t get it",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all. It's an algorithm developed by the IRS.",
">\n\nWasn’t it the GOP that wants to defund the IRS? Isn’t it the Biden admin trying to hire 80k new employees for the IRS?? It’s like we live in different worlds"
] |
>
I didn’t read any articles about what? I never referred to anyone’s level of wealth. | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that",
">\n\nBecause they question any black person making more money than they think they should.",
">\n\nReally, and you are worried about the GOP did not say something. Not saying something is an absence of knowledge not an opinion. Are you buying this bogeyman argument. Biden just beefed it up with up to 87K more agents. Didn't some crazies in the GOP just propose eliminating it with a flat VAT tax?",
">\n\n\"That's our bag, baby, yeah!\"",
">\n\nCan we eliminate the IRS yet?",
">\n\nJust learning the IRS is too powerful?",
">\n\nSo the GOP created a racist algorithm? Nice",
">\n\nHow is this the GOPs fault? I seriously don’t get it",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all. It's an algorithm developed by the IRS.",
">\n\nWasn’t it the GOP that wants to defund the IRS? Isn’t it the Biden admin trying to hire 80k new employees for the IRS?? It’s like we live in different worlds",
">\n\nOnly because you apparently didn't read any of the articles about that then. The glut of extra IRS was for the wealthy."
] |
>
Same reason the NRA does nothing to protect black gun owners killed in their own homes by police doing no knock warrant raids. | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that",
">\n\nBecause they question any black person making more money than they think they should.",
">\n\nReally, and you are worried about the GOP did not say something. Not saying something is an absence of knowledge not an opinion. Are you buying this bogeyman argument. Biden just beefed it up with up to 87K more agents. Didn't some crazies in the GOP just propose eliminating it with a flat VAT tax?",
">\n\n\"That's our bag, baby, yeah!\"",
">\n\nCan we eliminate the IRS yet?",
">\n\nJust learning the IRS is too powerful?",
">\n\nSo the GOP created a racist algorithm? Nice",
">\n\nHow is this the GOPs fault? I seriously don’t get it",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all. It's an algorithm developed by the IRS.",
">\n\nWasn’t it the GOP that wants to defund the IRS? Isn’t it the Biden admin trying to hire 80k new employees for the IRS?? It’s like we live in different worlds",
">\n\nOnly because you apparently didn't read any of the articles about that then. The glut of extra IRS was for the wealthy.",
">\n\nI didn’t read any articles about what? I never referred to anyone’s level of wealth."
] |
> | [
"Is there an study on how the returns are filed?\nIt seems today via Turbotax or a small time tax advisor (HR Block, CPA firm in the corner store), they both would auto grab any kind of credit for you. \nI think the onus is actually on the IRS--if someone qualify for the EITC they should be auto-added to the return.",
">\n\nI don't know what the rules are if you don't take a credit but since the IRS keeps records on how many people don't take the credit they probably don't care about fixing it. With how much of a problem this is and how much of a problem tax evasion is (almost our entire deficit in 2024 will be from tax evasion) the IRS should do everyone's taxes on their end and just send us the results.",
">\n\nIt is less about the IRS as an organization “not caring” or anything of that nature. Rather, it is the rules (the law) that Congress passes. \nThe IRS as an organization is very much built around the rules. Following the rules, knowing the rules, enforcing the rules, etc. Exceptions do exist. But the rule is that the rules exist and must be followed. They also don’t like how the Congress has grossly over-complicated the tax code. Reading some of the IRS reports and studies is a fascinating exercise; they are frustrated as an organization and as people who pay taxes themselves. \nIf we want change we have to go through the legislative process. Unfortunately.\nFor example, the IRS is certainly best positioned to process the overwhelming majority of tax filings. But it isn’t allowed to. Why? Because there are multi billion dollar enterprises built on filing taxes and portions of those revenues fund campaigns. Plus, distrusting the taxman is kind of central to the American story and ethos. \nWhen was the last time you looked at your withholdings and thought “hell yeah! Doing my part! Woo!” Never. The answer is never. \nOr when was the last time we met an IRS agent and thought “man, that person is doing it right. Making sure everyone is contributing to all the goods and services afforded to us just by living in this country.” Never. \nThe point is, Congress needs to be held accountable for the decades of crap they have added to the tax code.",
">\n\nThis might make me sound strange, but I don't mind paying my share of taxes—note that I say this as a socialist. For reference, my household's federal income tax liability is about $20k a year, give or take. My wife is a Soldier and I see how government spending has helped regular folks (especially younger Servicemembers) make a decent living and provides needed services.\nSimilarly, my state tax liability is about $6k. Again, I never mind paying it and my state does a damn decent job of providing needed services at that level.\nAnd my wife's late friend (died in the 2000s) was an IRS agent who was a decent and kind person who did her best to help the average taxpayer. My mother-in-law had positive interactions with the IRS a few years ago when she needed to sort out some issues with her small business taxes.\nI guess what I'm trying to say is that there are some exceptions.\nEdit to add: I do agree that some simplification of the tax code is needed. I don't work in that area (as my full-time role is in telecom), but surely there are improvements that can be made.",
">\n\nWell, thanks for being the exception:)\nI am generally of the same opinion actually. Maybe we should start a viral thing? That would be wild.",
">\n\nThe reason why Republicans won't say anything because acording to the conservatives, the system is hurting the right people.",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all.",
">\n\nDoesn’t it though? They always try to prove that systemic racism is made up, I’d like to see their answer/solution to this. \n(We all know it’ll be “get rid of the IRS, problem solved”)",
">\n\nBecause there's nothing racist about it.....\nThe IRS audits the poor the most by a good amount and given black people have the highest poverty rate there's your answer!\nThe problem here is poor people and frankly they really shouldn't be audited as much as they are given wtf can we really take.",
">\n\nThat’s exactly what systemic racism is. It’s racism which is baked into the structure, not an intentional effort that is being sustained by people with racist goals.",
">\n\nI just don't understand, I really don't want to be rude but frankly I don't think you understand what racism even is....\nThis isn't racism! The race plays 0 and I mean 0 in how the IRS operates they can't even see the race! For it to be racist it has to be against a specific race it's physically impossible for them to do that.",
">\n\nThe racial causation is upstream. That's how systemic racism works. The point is not \"boo, the IRS is full of racists\". It's that the IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race. You can even have systemic racism when the actual bigotry is entirely in the past.",
">\n\nNo....that's not how it works!\nOk stop trying to make everything about racism!\nIf it has nothing to do with race it's not racist what about that is hard to understand?",
">\n\n\nthe IRS's current practices combined with the persistent structural effects of racism lead to a situation where people are disadvantaged based on their race\n\nDo you agree with this statement?",
">\n\nNo...how does race play a role? How?\nAgain the IRS can't see race! So they're not at a disadvantage...\nAnd no being poor isn't racist either!",
">\n\nDo you acknowledge that poor people are disproportionately Black, and vice versa?",
">\n\nAny data about the rate at which those audits are finding issues?",
">\n\nWasn't this just found out to be because there happens to be more mistakes in their filing? \nThere is no race line, the IRS doesn't know your race. \nDoesn't the GOP fix this by their \"Abolish the IRS\" plan? \nOh it's MotherJones ...checks out.",
">\n\nWhat line on a 1040 do they ask what race you are?",
">\n\nThe one where you put your common black name.",
">\n\nThe IRS does not search for tax returns with common black names when choosing who to audit.",
">\n\nWhich makes it even more important to figure out why people of one distinct race are being disproportionately targeted for audits.\nThis stuff falls under systemic injustice, it's not deliberate but the effects are real.",
">\n\nRace shouldn't even be in the conversation. Our detection and enforcement should focus on reducing the number of false positives and increasing the number of true positives. When crafting detection methods we shouldn't count non-white false positives as double, or increase the threshold for flagging those who are non-white. The IRS doesn't need to know your race.\nWe shouldn't avoid detection methods that reduce false positives because it benefits whites, or increases true positives because it impacts non-whites.",
">\n\nIt doesn't mean the way it sounds I say the same thing. But it means the system is performing as the way it's supposed to",
">\n\nDo explain what you mean by that. are you trying to imply that black people commit a larger proportion of tax fraud?\nBecause the article makes it clear that most of these audits end out being completely clear.",
">\n\nIRS targets poor communities, which happen to be predominantly black communities.",
">\n\nImagine that… motherjones desperately blaming the GOP for anything and everything.",
">\n\nThey actually did not do that. But it is quite telling that even though you are attacking them, you still completely equate racism with Republicans.\nPretty damn ridiculous that you are trying to be dishonest and honesty keeps slipping in there.",
">\n\nDoesn't the inflation reduction act add a ton of new IRS agents. Is that also the GOP's fault?",
">\n\nDid you read the article?\nThe IRS focus on lower income audits that happen automatically and by mail is precisely because the IRS is underfunded and understaffed, as it's too expensive and requires too much manpower to go after rich tax cheats and complex tax schemes.\n\nAudit rates plummeted across the board after the GOP took back Congress in 2010 and proceeded to eviscerate the IRS’s enforcement budget. From 2011 to 2017, audits of EITC claimants declined by about 45 percent, but audits of taxpayers reporting income of $500,000 or more fell way more steeply—by as much as 78 percent.\nStarved of funding and accounting manpower by Republican lawmakers, the IRS bean-counters all but gave up on complex, high-dollar audits in favor of automated audits by mail—which now make us some 70 percent of all audits, and which the authors emphasize are “substantially cheaper” and “can be particularly burdensome for lower-income households.”\nLast year’s Inflation Reduction Act, which not a single congressional Republican supported, replenished the IRS’s coffers with almost $80 billion over 10 years. The enforcement component (roughly $46 billion) is expected to yield a 450 percent return by restoring the IRS’s ability to collect the taxes owed by rich Americans—including former president Donald Trump—who were rarely audited on his watch. Congressional Republicans are trying to repeal the new funding via the Family and Small Business Taxpayer Protection Act—a curious moniker for a bill that would mainly protect tax cheaters.\nThe House bill also aims to claw back $403 million from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, a watchdog that generates reports such as this one, noting that the IRS had failed to collect more than 60 percent of 2019 taxes—some $2.4 billion—still owed by delinquent individuals with incomes of $1.5 million and up. In 2020, the Inspector General reported that nearly 880,000 “high income” non-filers from 2014 through 2016 still owed the government $46 billion—and that the 300 biggest delinquents owed about $33 million per head, on average.",
">\n\nI didn't know there were people who actually believed the IRS was only going to target rich people",
">\n\nThat's a big claim to make.\nOccam thinks it is economics, not race. Hanlon thinks Mother Jones isn't malicious.",
">\n\nThe best you can get from that description is they still don't know what part of the modeling they have wrong that gives it the appearance of systemic racism. Therefore it remains a Big Claim.\nI don't think you're malicious, either.",
">\n\nWhat do you think systemic racism is?\n\nDespite race-blind audit selection, we find that Black taxpayers are audited at 2.9 to 4.7 times the rate of non-Black taxpayers. The main source of the disparity is differing audit rates by race among taxpayers claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).\n\n...\n\nBlack taxpayers, who accounted for an estimated 21 percent of EITC filers, were selected for 43 percent of the audits\n\nWhat is actually happening is a racially disparate and unjust outcome as a result of ostensibly neutral policy and methods. It's not an \"appearance\" of systemic racism. It is an example.\nThe only things being modeled are alternatives to the currently employed methods that can reduce or prevent these sorts of unfair racially unjust outcomes",
">\n\nThat does not follow. Systemic racism is still fundamentally racism. Targeting a particular subset of the population based on valid metrics that just happens to coincide almost exactly with a single racial minority is not a good look, but it isn't automatically racism. It could still be valid. You may want to change it anyway because a less efficient outcome is more desirable than the appearance of impropriety, but that's not the same as it actually being systemic racism.",
">\n\nThis way they can say…”look at all the good the IRS is doing”, as long as they stay away from that corporate money.",
">\n\nBiden's in charge of the IRS right now, so the premise is wrong. It should be \"why?\" Or \"why won't ANYONE say anything?\"",
">\n\nWhy would you say something like that",
">\n\nBecause they question any black person making more money than they think they should.",
">\n\nReally, and you are worried about the GOP did not say something. Not saying something is an absence of knowledge not an opinion. Are you buying this bogeyman argument. Biden just beefed it up with up to 87K more agents. Didn't some crazies in the GOP just propose eliminating it with a flat VAT tax?",
">\n\n\"That's our bag, baby, yeah!\"",
">\n\nCan we eliminate the IRS yet?",
">\n\nJust learning the IRS is too powerful?",
">\n\nSo the GOP created a racist algorithm? Nice",
">\n\nHow is this the GOPs fault? I seriously don’t get it",
">\n\nIt's not. It has nothing to do with the GOP at all. It's an algorithm developed by the IRS.",
">\n\nWasn’t it the GOP that wants to defund the IRS? Isn’t it the Biden admin trying to hire 80k new employees for the IRS?? It’s like we live in different worlds",
">\n\nOnly because you apparently didn't read any of the articles about that then. The glut of extra IRS was for the wealthy.",
">\n\nI didn’t read any articles about what? I never referred to anyone’s level of wealth.",
">\n\nSame reason the NRA does nothing to protect black gun owners killed in their own homes by police doing no knock warrant raids."
] |
To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big. | [] |
>
Exactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money. | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big."
] |
>
"laundered millions" | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money."
] |
>
How much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with? | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\""
] |
>
How can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy? | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?"
] |
>
Sorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity. | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?"
] |
>
What was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit? | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity."
] |
>
Conservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended. | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?"
] |
>
Imagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets "lost" somehow. | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended."
] |
>
The GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.
One Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.
Nice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys! | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow."
] |
>
Is there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted? | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!"
] |
>
"Lost" | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?"
] |
>
Seems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop!
POLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’
Trump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud
2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser
Two leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\""
] |
>
A for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022.
I’m sure its executives made plenty of money. | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court"
] |
>
Much-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections.
*fixed | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money."
] |
>
You mean Stolen | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed"
] |
>
Someone has been skimming off the top. | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed",
">\n\nYou mean Stolen"
] |
>
"lost"
Stolen | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed",
">\n\nYou mean Stolen",
">\n\nSomeone has been skimming off the top."
] |
>
Hearing this does not give me greater confidence in the GOP's plans for ending the deficit. | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed",
">\n\nYou mean Stolen",
">\n\nSomeone has been skimming off the top.",
">\n\n\"lost\"\nStolen"
] |
>
Even the name WinRed tells you all you need to know.
It's basically just team sports at this point.
This shit has nothing to do with the act of governance. It's all a grift | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed",
">\n\nYou mean Stolen",
">\n\nSomeone has been skimming off the top.",
">\n\n\"lost\"\nStolen",
">\n\nHearing this does not give me greater confidence in the GOP's plans for ending the deficit."
] |
>
Everyone know that any moneys trump is able to keep for personal self will be kept and never used for what its supposed to be used for. thats why ever since he has appointed himself GOP leader republicans complain about missing or misused or not enough funds to use for campaign. Everyone know all republicans have done since 2016 is campaign for money with no agenda for the people or planet. agenda only for begging money to fund trump. | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed",
">\n\nYou mean Stolen",
">\n\nSomeone has been skimming off the top.",
">\n\n\"lost\"\nStolen",
">\n\nHearing this does not give me greater confidence in the GOP's plans for ending the deficit.",
">\n\nEven the name WinRed tells you all you need to know.\nIt's basically just team sports at this point.\nThis shit has nothing to do with the act of governance. It's all a grift"
] |
>
Good | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed",
">\n\nYou mean Stolen",
">\n\nSomeone has been skimming off the top.",
">\n\n\"lost\"\nStolen",
">\n\nHearing this does not give me greater confidence in the GOP's plans for ending the deficit.",
">\n\nEven the name WinRed tells you all you need to know.\nIt's basically just team sports at this point.\nThis shit has nothing to do with the act of governance. It's all a grift",
">\n\nEveryone know that any moneys trump is able to keep for personal self will be kept and never used for what its supposed to be used for. thats why ever since he has appointed himself GOP leader republicans complain about missing or misused or not enough funds to use for campaign. Everyone know all republicans have done since 2016 is campaign for money with no agenda for the people or planet. agenda only for begging money to fund trump."
] |
>
Can someone use this entity's losses as a tax write-off? | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed",
">\n\nYou mean Stolen",
">\n\nSomeone has been skimming off the top.",
">\n\n\"lost\"\nStolen",
">\n\nHearing this does not give me greater confidence in the GOP's plans for ending the deficit.",
">\n\nEven the name WinRed tells you all you need to know.\nIt's basically just team sports at this point.\nThis shit has nothing to do with the act of governance. It's all a grift",
">\n\nEveryone know that any moneys trump is able to keep for personal self will be kept and never used for what its supposed to be used for. thats why ever since he has appointed himself GOP leader republicans complain about missing or misused or not enough funds to use for campaign. Everyone know all republicans have done since 2016 is campaign for money with no agenda for the people or planet. agenda only for begging money to fund trump.",
">\n\nGood"
] |
>
A sucker is born every minute. Those donors deserved it. | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed",
">\n\nYou mean Stolen",
">\n\nSomeone has been skimming off the top.",
">\n\n\"lost\"\nStolen",
">\n\nHearing this does not give me greater confidence in the GOP's plans for ending the deficit.",
">\n\nEven the name WinRed tells you all you need to know.\nIt's basically just team sports at this point.\nThis shit has nothing to do with the act of governance. It's all a grift",
">\n\nEveryone know that any moneys trump is able to keep for personal self will be kept and never used for what its supposed to be used for. thats why ever since he has appointed himself GOP leader republicans complain about missing or misused or not enough funds to use for campaign. Everyone know all republicans have done since 2016 is campaign for money with no agenda for the people or planet. agenda only for begging money to fund trump.",
">\n\nGood",
">\n\nCan someone use this entity's losses as a tax write-off?"
] |
>
What does this even mean? Lose as in they lost track of? Lose as in the petty cash drawer walked away? Lose like they funded an election that didn't win? Lose meaning they didn't follow up on a donation promise and so they lost the donation? This is a nonsensical story | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed",
">\n\nYou mean Stolen",
">\n\nSomeone has been skimming off the top.",
">\n\n\"lost\"\nStolen",
">\n\nHearing this does not give me greater confidence in the GOP's plans for ending the deficit.",
">\n\nEven the name WinRed tells you all you need to know.\nIt's basically just team sports at this point.\nThis shit has nothing to do with the act of governance. It's all a grift",
">\n\nEveryone know that any moneys trump is able to keep for personal self will be kept and never used for what its supposed to be used for. thats why ever since he has appointed himself GOP leader republicans complain about missing or misused or not enough funds to use for campaign. Everyone know all republicans have done since 2016 is campaign for money with no agenda for the people or planet. agenda only for begging money to fund trump.",
">\n\nGood",
">\n\nCan someone use this entity's losses as a tax write-off?",
">\n\nA sucker is born every minute. Those donors deserved it."
] |
>
Lost money for the party. Made a lot of other people very rich. | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed",
">\n\nYou mean Stolen",
">\n\nSomeone has been skimming off the top.",
">\n\n\"lost\"\nStolen",
">\n\nHearing this does not give me greater confidence in the GOP's plans for ending the deficit.",
">\n\nEven the name WinRed tells you all you need to know.\nIt's basically just team sports at this point.\nThis shit has nothing to do with the act of governance. It's all a grift",
">\n\nEveryone know that any moneys trump is able to keep for personal self will be kept and never used for what its supposed to be used for. thats why ever since he has appointed himself GOP leader republicans complain about missing or misused or not enough funds to use for campaign. Everyone know all republicans have done since 2016 is campaign for money with no agenda for the people or planet. agenda only for begging money to fund trump.",
">\n\nGood",
">\n\nCan someone use this entity's losses as a tax write-off?",
">\n\nA sucker is born every minute. Those donors deserved it.",
">\n\nWhat does this even mean? Lose as in they lost track of? Lose as in the petty cash drawer walked away? Lose like they funded an election that didn't win? Lose meaning they didn't follow up on a donation promise and so they lost the donation? This is a nonsensical story"
] |
>
Have some spare time, look up Win Red on FEC website and then when the disbursement details appear, one can see the $100K donations (R side of page) and who received the money (L side of page). Don't forget to sort by $ at top of 1st page! ENJOY | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed",
">\n\nYou mean Stolen",
">\n\nSomeone has been skimming off the top.",
">\n\n\"lost\"\nStolen",
">\n\nHearing this does not give me greater confidence in the GOP's plans for ending the deficit.",
">\n\nEven the name WinRed tells you all you need to know.\nIt's basically just team sports at this point.\nThis shit has nothing to do with the act of governance. It's all a grift",
">\n\nEveryone know that any moneys trump is able to keep for personal self will be kept and never used for what its supposed to be used for. thats why ever since he has appointed himself GOP leader republicans complain about missing or misused or not enough funds to use for campaign. Everyone know all republicans have done since 2016 is campaign for money with no agenda for the people or planet. agenda only for begging money to fund trump.",
">\n\nGood",
">\n\nCan someone use this entity's losses as a tax write-off?",
">\n\nA sucker is born every minute. Those donors deserved it.",
">\n\nWhat does this even mean? Lose as in they lost track of? Lose as in the petty cash drawer walked away? Lose like they funded an election that didn't win? Lose meaning they didn't follow up on a donation promise and so they lost the donation? This is a nonsensical story",
">\n\nLost money for the party. Made a lot of other people very rich."
] |
> | [
"To say it lost money means it cost more to run than it took in. But if the whole purpose was to make the operating costs the reason to run it, then whoever got those payments, fees,, and salaries won big.",
">\n\nExactly. The donors lost money. WinRed’s executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\n\"laundered millions\"",
">\n\nHow much did the people who ran it lose? How much did they walk away with?",
">\n\nHow can you ask these questions when M&M spokescandies are no longer sexy?",
">\n\nSorry, but i can't hear you over the sound of Hannity not getting waterboarded for charity.",
">\n\nWhat was that you said? Sorry I'm still watching reruns did you guys know that Obama once wore a tan suit?",
">\n\nConservatives have a fundraiser, rubes donated, and money disappeared. So, it worked as intended.",
">\n\nImagine that. Republicans sitting around a giant pile of money that gets \"lost\" somehow.",
">\n\n\nThe GOP’s much-touted, small-dollar fundraising platform WinRed, created in response to the Democratic-aligned ActBlue, lost millions of dollars during the midterm election cycle, according to top Republicans.\nOne Republican familiar with the privately held entity’s finances said it lost about $6 million over 2021 and 2022. A second confirmed the loss but believed the total was not quite that high. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.\n\nNice, I'll always be a fan of republicans wasting money for nothing. Keep it up, guys!",
">\n\nIs there anything more American than a Republican getting grifted?",
">\n\n\"Lost\"",
">\n\nSeems to be an ongoing theme with Republican fundraising. Good thing the rubes are focused on Hunter Biden's laptop! \nPOLITICO Playbook: ‘Where did all the money go?’\nTrump’s raising of $250m for fund that ‘did not exist’ suggests possible fraud\n2 plead guilty in ‘We Build The Wall’ fraudulent fundraiser\nTwo leaders of True the Vote jailed by federal judge for contempt of court",
">\n\nA for profit fundraising platform giving monopoly rights as the fundraising platform for GOP candidates by the national GOP operated at a loss in 2022. \nI’m sure its executives made plenty of money.",
">\n\nMuch-Touted Trump Era Fundraising Platform WinRed GRIFS Millions in Midterm Elections. \n*fixed",
">\n\nYou mean Stolen",
">\n\nSomeone has been skimming off the top.",
">\n\n\"lost\"\nStolen",
">\n\nHearing this does not give me greater confidence in the GOP's plans for ending the deficit.",
">\n\nEven the name WinRed tells you all you need to know.\nIt's basically just team sports at this point.\nThis shit has nothing to do with the act of governance. It's all a grift",
">\n\nEveryone know that any moneys trump is able to keep for personal self will be kept and never used for what its supposed to be used for. thats why ever since he has appointed himself GOP leader republicans complain about missing or misused or not enough funds to use for campaign. Everyone know all republicans have done since 2016 is campaign for money with no agenda for the people or planet. agenda only for begging money to fund trump.",
">\n\nGood",
">\n\nCan someone use this entity's losses as a tax write-off?",
">\n\nA sucker is born every minute. Those donors deserved it.",
">\n\nWhat does this even mean? Lose as in they lost track of? Lose as in the petty cash drawer walked away? Lose like they funded an election that didn't win? Lose meaning they didn't follow up on a donation promise and so they lost the donation? This is a nonsensical story",
">\n\nLost money for the party. Made a lot of other people very rich.",
">\n\nHave some spare time, look up Win Red on FEC website and then when the disbursement details appear, one can see the $100K donations (R side of page) and who received the money (L side of page). Don't forget to sort by $ at top of 1st page! ENJOY"
] |
Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol "massive" return. | [] |
>
Crazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.
Well, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it. | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return."
] |
>
In a perfect world, the number would be $0, but in reality that's not going to happen and it's going to be off one way or another. While I'm certainly not wanting for a "massive" return (though I'm not sure what you're defining as massive anyways), I certainly prefer getting money back to finding out I owe the government more money. | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return.",
">\n\nCrazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.\nWell, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it."
] |
>
A lot of people wouldn’t save the money so if they ended up short, they would be screwed. | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return.",
">\n\nCrazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.\nWell, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it.",
">\n\nIn a perfect world, the number would be $0, but in reality that's not going to happen and it's going to be off one way or another. While I'm certainly not wanting for a \"massive\" return (though I'm not sure what you're defining as massive anyways), I certainly prefer getting money back to finding out I owe the government more money."
] |
>
I always end up owing money, so I guess I’m not withholding enough. | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return.",
">\n\nCrazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.\nWell, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it.",
">\n\nIn a perfect world, the number would be $0, but in reality that's not going to happen and it's going to be off one way or another. While I'm certainly not wanting for a \"massive\" return (though I'm not sure what you're defining as massive anyways), I certainly prefer getting money back to finding out I owe the government more money.",
">\n\nA lot of people wouldn’t save the money so if they ended up short, they would be screwed."
] |
>
Or you're getting an interest-free loan from the government, which is also good (not so much this year though because the markets tanked). | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return.",
">\n\nCrazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.\nWell, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it.",
">\n\nIn a perfect world, the number would be $0, but in reality that's not going to happen and it's going to be off one way or another. While I'm certainly not wanting for a \"massive\" return (though I'm not sure what you're defining as massive anyways), I certainly prefer getting money back to finding out I owe the government more money.",
">\n\nA lot of people wouldn’t save the money so if they ended up short, they would be screwed.",
">\n\nI always end up owing money, so I guess I’m not withholding enough."
] |
>
Nope, no loans. | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return.",
">\n\nCrazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.\nWell, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it.",
">\n\nIn a perfect world, the number would be $0, but in reality that's not going to happen and it's going to be off one way or another. While I'm certainly not wanting for a \"massive\" return (though I'm not sure what you're defining as massive anyways), I certainly prefer getting money back to finding out I owe the government more money.",
">\n\nA lot of people wouldn’t save the money so if they ended up short, they would be screwed.",
">\n\nI always end up owing money, so I guess I’m not withholding enough.",
">\n\nOr you're getting an interest-free loan from the government, which is also good (not so much this year though because the markets tanked)."
] |
>
SymphonyofLilies hurt itself in its confusion
The post is literally about how getting a tax refund means you gave the government an interest free loan. Now think about what the equivalent would be if you owe money at the end of the year. Real brain twister. | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return.",
">\n\nCrazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.\nWell, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it.",
">\n\nIn a perfect world, the number would be $0, but in reality that's not going to happen and it's going to be off one way or another. While I'm certainly not wanting for a \"massive\" return (though I'm not sure what you're defining as massive anyways), I certainly prefer getting money back to finding out I owe the government more money.",
">\n\nA lot of people wouldn’t save the money so if they ended up short, they would be screwed.",
">\n\nI always end up owing money, so I guess I’m not withholding enough.",
">\n\nOr you're getting an interest-free loan from the government, which is also good (not so much this year though because the markets tanked).",
">\n\nNope, no loans."
] |
>
It would be the same difference. Either you withheld the money and then got the rest back once it was all calculated, or you made the money upfront and paid what you owed. | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return.",
">\n\nCrazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.\nWell, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it.",
">\n\nIn a perfect world, the number would be $0, but in reality that's not going to happen and it's going to be off one way or another. While I'm certainly not wanting for a \"massive\" return (though I'm not sure what you're defining as massive anyways), I certainly prefer getting money back to finding out I owe the government more money.",
">\n\nA lot of people wouldn’t save the money so if they ended up short, they would be screwed.",
">\n\nI always end up owing money, so I guess I’m not withholding enough.",
">\n\nOr you're getting an interest-free loan from the government, which is also good (not so much this year though because the markets tanked).",
">\n\nNope, no loans.",
">\n\nSymphonyofLilies hurt itself in its confusion\nThe post is literally about how getting a tax refund means you gave the government an interest free loan. Now think about what the equivalent would be if you owe money at the end of the year. Real brain twister."
] |
>
Having money that isn’t yours but that you’ll pay back later is essentially an interest free loan. So either they’re taking it from you or you’re taking it from them. Not literally a loan but in essence. | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return.",
">\n\nCrazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.\nWell, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it.",
">\n\nIn a perfect world, the number would be $0, but in reality that's not going to happen and it's going to be off one way or another. While I'm certainly not wanting for a \"massive\" return (though I'm not sure what you're defining as massive anyways), I certainly prefer getting money back to finding out I owe the government more money.",
">\n\nA lot of people wouldn’t save the money so if they ended up short, they would be screwed.",
">\n\nI always end up owing money, so I guess I’m not withholding enough.",
">\n\nOr you're getting an interest-free loan from the government, which is also good (not so much this year though because the markets tanked).",
">\n\nNope, no loans.",
">\n\nSymphonyofLilies hurt itself in its confusion\nThe post is literally about how getting a tax refund means you gave the government an interest free loan. Now think about what the equivalent would be if you owe money at the end of the year. Real brain twister.",
">\n\nIt would be the same difference. Either you withheld the money and then got the rest back once it was all calculated, or you made the money upfront and paid what you owed."
] |
>
It’s not money that isn’t mine though. It’s all money I worked for and earned. Some of it has to be sacrificed to the government for necessary tax expenses, but none of it was excess given to me outside of the salary I was promised. | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return.",
">\n\nCrazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.\nWell, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it.",
">\n\nIn a perfect world, the number would be $0, but in reality that's not going to happen and it's going to be off one way or another. While I'm certainly not wanting for a \"massive\" return (though I'm not sure what you're defining as massive anyways), I certainly prefer getting money back to finding out I owe the government more money.",
">\n\nA lot of people wouldn’t save the money so if they ended up short, they would be screwed.",
">\n\nI always end up owing money, so I guess I’m not withholding enough.",
">\n\nOr you're getting an interest-free loan from the government, which is also good (not so much this year though because the markets tanked).",
">\n\nNope, no loans.",
">\n\nSymphonyofLilies hurt itself in its confusion\nThe post is literally about how getting a tax refund means you gave the government an interest free loan. Now think about what the equivalent would be if you owe money at the end of the year. Real brain twister.",
">\n\nIt would be the same difference. Either you withheld the money and then got the rest back once it was all calculated, or you made the money upfront and paid what you owed.",
">\n\nHaving money that isn’t yours but that you’ll pay back later is essentially an interest free loan. So either they’re taking it from you or you’re taking it from them. Not literally a loan but in essence."
] |
>
If you're worried about giving the government an interest-free loan, you need to adjust your withholding, it's form w4. I think of it as a savings account I forget about because I'm too lazy/impulsive to actually do it myself. | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return.",
">\n\nCrazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.\nWell, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it.",
">\n\nIn a perfect world, the number would be $0, but in reality that's not going to happen and it's going to be off one way or another. While I'm certainly not wanting for a \"massive\" return (though I'm not sure what you're defining as massive anyways), I certainly prefer getting money back to finding out I owe the government more money.",
">\n\nA lot of people wouldn’t save the money so if they ended up short, they would be screwed.",
">\n\nI always end up owing money, so I guess I’m not withholding enough.",
">\n\nOr you're getting an interest-free loan from the government, which is also good (not so much this year though because the markets tanked).",
">\n\nNope, no loans.",
">\n\nSymphonyofLilies hurt itself in its confusion\nThe post is literally about how getting a tax refund means you gave the government an interest free loan. Now think about what the equivalent would be if you owe money at the end of the year. Real brain twister.",
">\n\nIt would be the same difference. Either you withheld the money and then got the rest back once it was all calculated, or you made the money upfront and paid what you owed.",
">\n\nHaving money that isn’t yours but that you’ll pay back later is essentially an interest free loan. So either they’re taking it from you or you’re taking it from them. Not literally a loan but in essence.",
">\n\nIt’s not money that isn’t mine though. It’s all money I worked for and earned. Some of it has to be sacrificed to the government for necessary tax expenses, but none of it was excess given to me outside of the salary I was promised."
] |
>
Most people should already know this. | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return.",
">\n\nCrazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.\nWell, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it.",
">\n\nIn a perfect world, the number would be $0, but in reality that's not going to happen and it's going to be off one way or another. While I'm certainly not wanting for a \"massive\" return (though I'm not sure what you're defining as massive anyways), I certainly prefer getting money back to finding out I owe the government more money.",
">\n\nA lot of people wouldn’t save the money so if they ended up short, they would be screwed.",
">\n\nI always end up owing money, so I guess I’m not withholding enough.",
">\n\nOr you're getting an interest-free loan from the government, which is also good (not so much this year though because the markets tanked).",
">\n\nNope, no loans.",
">\n\nSymphonyofLilies hurt itself in its confusion\nThe post is literally about how getting a tax refund means you gave the government an interest free loan. Now think about what the equivalent would be if you owe money at the end of the year. Real brain twister.",
">\n\nIt would be the same difference. Either you withheld the money and then got the rest back once it was all calculated, or you made the money upfront and paid what you owed.",
">\n\nHaving money that isn’t yours but that you’ll pay back later is essentially an interest free loan. So either they’re taking it from you or you’re taking it from them. Not literally a loan but in essence.",
">\n\nIt’s not money that isn’t mine though. It’s all money I worked for and earned. Some of it has to be sacrificed to the government for necessary tax expenses, but none of it was excess given to me outside of the salary I was promised.",
">\n\nIf you're worried about giving the government an interest-free loan, you need to adjust your withholding, it's form w4. I think of it as a savings account I forget about because I'm too lazy/impulsive to actually do it myself."
] |
> | [
"Ya they only took 15 grand from me and I got a return of 1200. Lol \"massive\" return.",
">\n\nCrazy how that works huh? Not only does the government not make doing taxes easy for the purpose of allowing tax services to profit in this country, but also they found a way to encourage people to give more money and ensure they really meet their tax quota.\nWell, all I care about is getting the money back. They can give me the whole 20 cents I earned on interest if they want to, but I make enough to where I won't complain about it.",
">\n\nIn a perfect world, the number would be $0, but in reality that's not going to happen and it's going to be off one way or another. While I'm certainly not wanting for a \"massive\" return (though I'm not sure what you're defining as massive anyways), I certainly prefer getting money back to finding out I owe the government more money.",
">\n\nA lot of people wouldn’t save the money so if they ended up short, they would be screwed.",
">\n\nI always end up owing money, so I guess I’m not withholding enough.",
">\n\nOr you're getting an interest-free loan from the government, which is also good (not so much this year though because the markets tanked).",
">\n\nNope, no loans.",
">\n\nSymphonyofLilies hurt itself in its confusion\nThe post is literally about how getting a tax refund means you gave the government an interest free loan. Now think about what the equivalent would be if you owe money at the end of the year. Real brain twister.",
">\n\nIt would be the same difference. Either you withheld the money and then got the rest back once it was all calculated, or you made the money upfront and paid what you owed.",
">\n\nHaving money that isn’t yours but that you’ll pay back later is essentially an interest free loan. So either they’re taking it from you or you’re taking it from them. Not literally a loan but in essence.",
">\n\nIt’s not money that isn’t mine though. It’s all money I worked for and earned. Some of it has to be sacrificed to the government for necessary tax expenses, but none of it was excess given to me outside of the salary I was promised.",
">\n\nIf you're worried about giving the government an interest-free loan, you need to adjust your withholding, it's form w4. I think of it as a savings account I forget about because I'm too lazy/impulsive to actually do it myself.",
">\n\nMost people should already know this."
] |
This on struck me as super awful:
Two young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths. | [] |
>
He died doing what he loved to do. | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths."
] |
>
Being a narcissistic douche. | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do."
] |
>
Its pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche."
] |
>
Everyone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.
And most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc. | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media"
] |
>
Anybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc."
] |
>
I'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media.
It is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity. | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content"
] |
>
It's the people not the app | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity."
] |
>
Really the only proper answer imho.
Instead of quitting social media, I post positive content that I hope lifts up those around me. It’s been well received by friends and family.
Blaming everything on the Algorithm is being willfully ignorant. And I’m not trying to fully downplay the algorithm, because it is designed to keep us all at each others throats to an extent. Or at least foster disputes.
But we can rise above it. We can be good neighbors and positive members of our community. It is still a choice.
Believing anything less is essentially abdicating responsibility for a better society. | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity.",
">\n\nIt's the people not the app"
] |
>
Contrary to some other social media, you can train the tiktok algorithm to cut the bullshit and show you things you want to see, which could be positive content only if you want. I opened reddit yesterday and the first post in my feed is a suicide note from what I presume to be a now dead person. | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity.",
">\n\nIt's the people not the app",
">\n\nReally the only proper answer imho. \nInstead of quitting social media, I post positive content that I hope lifts up those around me. It’s been well received by friends and family.\nBlaming everything on the Algorithm is being willfully ignorant. And I’m not trying to fully downplay the algorithm, because it is designed to keep us all at each others throats to an extent. Or at least foster disputes. \nBut we can rise above it. We can be good neighbors and positive members of our community. It is still a choice. \nBelieving anything less is essentially abdicating responsibility for a better society."
] |
>
Yeah. Some subreddits I keep to stay a little informed or whatever, but I have shed a bunch that kind of made me more frustrated than I wanted to be.
If all someone on Facebook does is share political memes or rant on politics I usually just unfollow them and they are still a friend, but my news feed is more positive.
Takes a bit of work and it isn’t a 100%, but it’s better. | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity.",
">\n\nIt's the people not the app",
">\n\nReally the only proper answer imho. \nInstead of quitting social media, I post positive content that I hope lifts up those around me. It’s been well received by friends and family.\nBlaming everything on the Algorithm is being willfully ignorant. And I’m not trying to fully downplay the algorithm, because it is designed to keep us all at each others throats to an extent. Or at least foster disputes. \nBut we can rise above it. We can be good neighbors and positive members of our community. It is still a choice. \nBelieving anything less is essentially abdicating responsibility for a better society.",
">\n\nContrary to some other social media, you can train the tiktok algorithm to cut the bullshit and show you things you want to see, which could be positive content only if you want. I opened reddit yesterday and the first post in my feed is a suicide note from what I presume to be a now dead person."
] |
>
Bound to happen at some point, fuck around and find out. | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity.",
">\n\nIt's the people not the app",
">\n\nReally the only proper answer imho. \nInstead of quitting social media, I post positive content that I hope lifts up those around me. It’s been well received by friends and family.\nBlaming everything on the Algorithm is being willfully ignorant. And I’m not trying to fully downplay the algorithm, because it is designed to keep us all at each others throats to an extent. Or at least foster disputes. \nBut we can rise above it. We can be good neighbors and positive members of our community. It is still a choice. \nBelieving anything less is essentially abdicating responsibility for a better society.",
">\n\nContrary to some other social media, you can train the tiktok algorithm to cut the bullshit and show you things you want to see, which could be positive content only if you want. I opened reddit yesterday and the first post in my feed is a suicide note from what I presume to be a now dead person.",
">\n\nYeah. Some subreddits I keep to stay a little informed or whatever, but I have shed a bunch that kind of made me more frustrated than I wanted to be.\nIf all someone on Facebook does is share political memes or rant on politics I usually just unfollow them and they are still a friend, but my news feed is more positive. \nTakes a bit of work and it isn’t a 100%, but it’s better."
] |
>
Ah, natural selection at work | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity.",
">\n\nIt's the people not the app",
">\n\nReally the only proper answer imho. \nInstead of quitting social media, I post positive content that I hope lifts up those around me. It’s been well received by friends and family.\nBlaming everything on the Algorithm is being willfully ignorant. And I’m not trying to fully downplay the algorithm, because it is designed to keep us all at each others throats to an extent. Or at least foster disputes. \nBut we can rise above it. We can be good neighbors and positive members of our community. It is still a choice. \nBelieving anything less is essentially abdicating responsibility for a better society.",
">\n\nContrary to some other social media, you can train the tiktok algorithm to cut the bullshit and show you things you want to see, which could be positive content only if you want. I opened reddit yesterday and the first post in my feed is a suicide note from what I presume to be a now dead person.",
">\n\nYeah. Some subreddits I keep to stay a little informed or whatever, but I have shed a bunch that kind of made me more frustrated than I wanted to be.\nIf all someone on Facebook does is share political memes or rant on politics I usually just unfollow them and they are still a friend, but my news feed is more positive. \nTakes a bit of work and it isn’t a 100%, but it’s better.",
">\n\nBound to happen at some point, fuck around and find out."
] |
>
Charlie got another one. | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity.",
">\n\nIt's the people not the app",
">\n\nReally the only proper answer imho. \nInstead of quitting social media, I post positive content that I hope lifts up those around me. It’s been well received by friends and family.\nBlaming everything on the Algorithm is being willfully ignorant. And I’m not trying to fully downplay the algorithm, because it is designed to keep us all at each others throats to an extent. Or at least foster disputes. \nBut we can rise above it. We can be good neighbors and positive members of our community. It is still a choice. \nBelieving anything less is essentially abdicating responsibility for a better society.",
">\n\nContrary to some other social media, you can train the tiktok algorithm to cut the bullshit and show you things you want to see, which could be positive content only if you want. I opened reddit yesterday and the first post in my feed is a suicide note from what I presume to be a now dead person.",
">\n\nYeah. Some subreddits I keep to stay a little informed or whatever, but I have shed a bunch that kind of made me more frustrated than I wanted to be.\nIf all someone on Facebook does is share political memes or rant on politics I usually just unfollow them and they are still a friend, but my news feed is more positive. \nTakes a bit of work and it isn’t a 100%, but it’s better.",
">\n\nBound to happen at some point, fuck around and find out.",
">\n\nAh, natural selection at work"
] |
>
I'm not sure what side should I be on:
Users of tiktok getting hurt or dying
Or
Creators getting hurt or dying because if there are no more creators, users will also not exist...
Basically tiktok needs to go, either of the two ways above I don't mind | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity.",
">\n\nIt's the people not the app",
">\n\nReally the only proper answer imho. \nInstead of quitting social media, I post positive content that I hope lifts up those around me. It’s been well received by friends and family.\nBlaming everything on the Algorithm is being willfully ignorant. And I’m not trying to fully downplay the algorithm, because it is designed to keep us all at each others throats to an extent. Or at least foster disputes. \nBut we can rise above it. We can be good neighbors and positive members of our community. It is still a choice. \nBelieving anything less is essentially abdicating responsibility for a better society.",
">\n\nContrary to some other social media, you can train the tiktok algorithm to cut the bullshit and show you things you want to see, which could be positive content only if you want. I opened reddit yesterday and the first post in my feed is a suicide note from what I presume to be a now dead person.",
">\n\nYeah. Some subreddits I keep to stay a little informed or whatever, but I have shed a bunch that kind of made me more frustrated than I wanted to be.\nIf all someone on Facebook does is share political memes or rant on politics I usually just unfollow them and they are still a friend, but my news feed is more positive. \nTakes a bit of work and it isn’t a 100%, but it’s better.",
">\n\nBound to happen at some point, fuck around and find out.",
">\n\nAh, natural selection at work",
">\n\nCharlie got another one."
] |
>
It's just not Tik Tok, IG as well. The internal redearch on IG is absolutely awful | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity.",
">\n\nIt's the people not the app",
">\n\nReally the only proper answer imho. \nInstead of quitting social media, I post positive content that I hope lifts up those around me. It’s been well received by friends and family.\nBlaming everything on the Algorithm is being willfully ignorant. And I’m not trying to fully downplay the algorithm, because it is designed to keep us all at each others throats to an extent. Or at least foster disputes. \nBut we can rise above it. We can be good neighbors and positive members of our community. It is still a choice. \nBelieving anything less is essentially abdicating responsibility for a better society.",
">\n\nContrary to some other social media, you can train the tiktok algorithm to cut the bullshit and show you things you want to see, which could be positive content only if you want. I opened reddit yesterday and the first post in my feed is a suicide note from what I presume to be a now dead person.",
">\n\nYeah. Some subreddits I keep to stay a little informed or whatever, but I have shed a bunch that kind of made me more frustrated than I wanted to be.\nIf all someone on Facebook does is share political memes or rant on politics I usually just unfollow them and they are still a friend, but my news feed is more positive. \nTakes a bit of work and it isn’t a 100%, but it’s better.",
">\n\nBound to happen at some point, fuck around and find out.",
">\n\nAh, natural selection at work",
">\n\nCharlie got another one.",
">\n\nI'm not sure what side should I be on:\nUsers of tiktok getting hurt or dying\nOr\nCreators getting hurt or dying because if there are no more creators, users will also not exist...\nBasically tiktok needs to go, either of the two ways above I don't mind"
] |
>
One less idiot using up precious resources | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity.",
">\n\nIt's the people not the app",
">\n\nReally the only proper answer imho. \nInstead of quitting social media, I post positive content that I hope lifts up those around me. It’s been well received by friends and family.\nBlaming everything on the Algorithm is being willfully ignorant. And I’m not trying to fully downplay the algorithm, because it is designed to keep us all at each others throats to an extent. Or at least foster disputes. \nBut we can rise above it. We can be good neighbors and positive members of our community. It is still a choice. \nBelieving anything less is essentially abdicating responsibility for a better society.",
">\n\nContrary to some other social media, you can train the tiktok algorithm to cut the bullshit and show you things you want to see, which could be positive content only if you want. I opened reddit yesterday and the first post in my feed is a suicide note from what I presume to be a now dead person.",
">\n\nYeah. Some subreddits I keep to stay a little informed or whatever, but I have shed a bunch that kind of made me more frustrated than I wanted to be.\nIf all someone on Facebook does is share political memes or rant on politics I usually just unfollow them and they are still a friend, but my news feed is more positive. \nTakes a bit of work and it isn’t a 100%, but it’s better.",
">\n\nBound to happen at some point, fuck around and find out.",
">\n\nAh, natural selection at work",
">\n\nCharlie got another one.",
">\n\nI'm not sure what side should I be on:\nUsers of tiktok getting hurt or dying\nOr\nCreators getting hurt or dying because if there are no more creators, users will also not exist...\nBasically tiktok needs to go, either of the two ways above I don't mind",
">\n\nIt's just not Tik Tok, IG as well. The internal redearch on IG is absolutely awful"
] |
>
Oh shut up. Like your own existence is well worth the trouble | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity.",
">\n\nIt's the people not the app",
">\n\nReally the only proper answer imho. \nInstead of quitting social media, I post positive content that I hope lifts up those around me. It’s been well received by friends and family.\nBlaming everything on the Algorithm is being willfully ignorant. And I’m not trying to fully downplay the algorithm, because it is designed to keep us all at each others throats to an extent. Or at least foster disputes. \nBut we can rise above it. We can be good neighbors and positive members of our community. It is still a choice. \nBelieving anything less is essentially abdicating responsibility for a better society.",
">\n\nContrary to some other social media, you can train the tiktok algorithm to cut the bullshit and show you things you want to see, which could be positive content only if you want. I opened reddit yesterday and the first post in my feed is a suicide note from what I presume to be a now dead person.",
">\n\nYeah. Some subreddits I keep to stay a little informed or whatever, but I have shed a bunch that kind of made me more frustrated than I wanted to be.\nIf all someone on Facebook does is share political memes or rant on politics I usually just unfollow them and they are still a friend, but my news feed is more positive. \nTakes a bit of work and it isn’t a 100%, but it’s better.",
">\n\nBound to happen at some point, fuck around and find out.",
">\n\nAh, natural selection at work",
">\n\nCharlie got another one.",
">\n\nI'm not sure what side should I be on:\nUsers of tiktok getting hurt or dying\nOr\nCreators getting hurt or dying because if there are no more creators, users will also not exist...\nBasically tiktok needs to go, either of the two ways above I don't mind",
">\n\nIt's just not Tik Tok, IG as well. The internal redearch on IG is absolutely awful",
">\n\nOne less idiot using up precious resources"
] |
>
Didn't say it was🖕 | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity.",
">\n\nIt's the people not the app",
">\n\nReally the only proper answer imho. \nInstead of quitting social media, I post positive content that I hope lifts up those around me. It’s been well received by friends and family.\nBlaming everything on the Algorithm is being willfully ignorant. And I’m not trying to fully downplay the algorithm, because it is designed to keep us all at each others throats to an extent. Or at least foster disputes. \nBut we can rise above it. We can be good neighbors and positive members of our community. It is still a choice. \nBelieving anything less is essentially abdicating responsibility for a better society.",
">\n\nContrary to some other social media, you can train the tiktok algorithm to cut the bullshit and show you things you want to see, which could be positive content only if you want. I opened reddit yesterday and the first post in my feed is a suicide note from what I presume to be a now dead person.",
">\n\nYeah. Some subreddits I keep to stay a little informed or whatever, but I have shed a bunch that kind of made me more frustrated than I wanted to be.\nIf all someone on Facebook does is share political memes or rant on politics I usually just unfollow them and they are still a friend, but my news feed is more positive. \nTakes a bit of work and it isn’t a 100%, but it’s better.",
">\n\nBound to happen at some point, fuck around and find out.",
">\n\nAh, natural selection at work",
">\n\nCharlie got another one.",
">\n\nI'm not sure what side should I be on:\nUsers of tiktok getting hurt or dying\nOr\nCreators getting hurt or dying because if there are no more creators, users will also not exist...\nBasically tiktok needs to go, either of the two ways above I don't mind",
">\n\nIt's just not Tik Tok, IG as well. The internal redearch on IG is absolutely awful",
">\n\nOne less idiot using up precious resources",
">\n\nOh shut up. Like your own existence is well worth the trouble"
] |
> | [
"This on struck me as super awful: \nTwo young men died in the Ural Mountains after they pulled the pin from a live hand grenade to take a selfie. The phone with the picture remained as evidence of the circumstance of their deaths.",
">\n\nHe died doing what he loved to do.",
">\n\nBeing a narcissistic douche.",
">\n\nIts pretty sad and completely unnecessary. I just don’t get why people would risk life and limbs just for a few upvotes / likes on social media",
">\n\nEveryone thinks they have an adequate assessment of danger and risk. No one really thinks they're risking life and limb.\nAnd most humans are incredibly driven to feel liked and admired. Whether that's through social media; their looks; owning status symbols; being successful; getting upvotes; etc.",
">\n\nAnybody know where to find the video? r/WinStupidPrizes needs more content",
">\n\nI'll say it again, Tiktok is all that is wrong with social media. \nIt is the absolute abandonment of reasonable thought in order to portray yourself as a celebrity.",
">\n\nIt's the people not the app",
">\n\nReally the only proper answer imho. \nInstead of quitting social media, I post positive content that I hope lifts up those around me. It’s been well received by friends and family.\nBlaming everything on the Algorithm is being willfully ignorant. And I’m not trying to fully downplay the algorithm, because it is designed to keep us all at each others throats to an extent. Or at least foster disputes. \nBut we can rise above it. We can be good neighbors and positive members of our community. It is still a choice. \nBelieving anything less is essentially abdicating responsibility for a better society.",
">\n\nContrary to some other social media, you can train the tiktok algorithm to cut the bullshit and show you things you want to see, which could be positive content only if you want. I opened reddit yesterday and the first post in my feed is a suicide note from what I presume to be a now dead person.",
">\n\nYeah. Some subreddits I keep to stay a little informed or whatever, but I have shed a bunch that kind of made me more frustrated than I wanted to be.\nIf all someone on Facebook does is share political memes or rant on politics I usually just unfollow them and they are still a friend, but my news feed is more positive. \nTakes a bit of work and it isn’t a 100%, but it’s better.",
">\n\nBound to happen at some point, fuck around and find out.",
">\n\nAh, natural selection at work",
">\n\nCharlie got another one.",
">\n\nI'm not sure what side should I be on:\nUsers of tiktok getting hurt or dying\nOr\nCreators getting hurt or dying because if there are no more creators, users will also not exist...\nBasically tiktok needs to go, either of the two ways above I don't mind",
">\n\nIt's just not Tik Tok, IG as well. The internal redearch on IG is absolutely awful",
">\n\nOne less idiot using up precious resources",
">\n\nOh shut up. Like your own existence is well worth the trouble",
">\n\nDidn't say it was🖕"
] |
The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane. | [] |
>
Conservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is. | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane."
] |
>
If he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole. | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is."
] |
>
That's his fiefdom. | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole."
] |
>
Technically it's a covfiefdom. | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole.",
">\n\nThat's his fiefdom."
] |
>
begun, the bullshit wars, have | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole.",
">\n\nThat's his fiefdom.",
">\n\nTechnically it's a covfiefdom."
] |
>
Begun, They've been at the bullshit wars for close to 50 years by now. 😢 | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole.",
">\n\nThat's his fiefdom.",
">\n\nTechnically it's a covfiefdom.",
">\n\nbegun, the bullshit wars, have"
] |
>
sure, but I've been binging battlefront 2 lately so I've had yoda on the brain and the quote seemed somewhat apt | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole.",
">\n\nThat's his fiefdom.",
">\n\nTechnically it's a covfiefdom.",
">\n\nbegun, the bullshit wars, have",
">\n\nBegun, They've been at the bullshit wars for close to 50 years by now. 😢"
] |
>
Isn't that on sale for like $5?Any good? I thought about grabbing it but I want to see some gameplay first, plus I'm only 1/2 way through RDR2. | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole.",
">\n\nThat's his fiefdom.",
">\n\nTechnically it's a covfiefdom.",
">\n\nbegun, the bullshit wars, have",
">\n\nBegun, They've been at the bullshit wars for close to 50 years by now. 😢",
">\n\nsure, but I've been binging battlefront 2 lately so I've had yoda on the brain and the quote seemed somewhat apt"
] |
>
its from like 2018 but there's still a pretty sold online multi-player base, I never have trouble finding matches like with other older online shooters. single player is pretty bland and short so it's more for the online experience | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole.",
">\n\nThat's his fiefdom.",
">\n\nTechnically it's a covfiefdom.",
">\n\nbegun, the bullshit wars, have",
">\n\nBegun, They've been at the bullshit wars for close to 50 years by now. 😢",
">\n\nsure, but I've been binging battlefront 2 lately so I've had yoda on the brain and the quote seemed somewhat apt",
">\n\nIsn't that on sale for like $5?Any good? I thought about grabbing it but I want to see some gameplay first, plus I'm only 1/2 way through RDR2."
] |
>
The type of answer I expected/hoped for | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole.",
">\n\nThat's his fiefdom.",
">\n\nTechnically it's a covfiefdom.",
">\n\nbegun, the bullshit wars, have",
">\n\nBegun, They've been at the bullshit wars for close to 50 years by now. 😢",
">\n\nsure, but I've been binging battlefront 2 lately so I've had yoda on the brain and the quote seemed somewhat apt",
">\n\nIsn't that on sale for like $5?Any good? I thought about grabbing it but I want to see some gameplay first, plus I'm only 1/2 way through RDR2.",
">\n\nits from like 2018 but there's still a pretty sold online multi-player base, I never have trouble finding matches like with other older online shooters. single player is pretty bland and short so it's more for the online experience"
] |
>
Remember, the GOP has demonstrated in the last 2 years that Congressional subpoenas can be ignored with impunity and without consequence. | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole.",
">\n\nThat's his fiefdom.",
">\n\nTechnically it's a covfiefdom.",
">\n\nbegun, the bullshit wars, have",
">\n\nBegun, They've been at the bullshit wars for close to 50 years by now. 😢",
">\n\nsure, but I've been binging battlefront 2 lately so I've had yoda on the brain and the quote seemed somewhat apt",
">\n\nIsn't that on sale for like $5?Any good? I thought about grabbing it but I want to see some gameplay first, plus I'm only 1/2 way through RDR2.",
">\n\nits from like 2018 but there's still a pretty sold online multi-player base, I never have trouble finding matches like with other older online shooters. single player is pretty bland and short so it's more for the online experience",
">\n\nThe type of answer I expected/hoped for"
] |
>
But any subpoenas THEY issue they expect to be heeded | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole.",
">\n\nThat's his fiefdom.",
">\n\nTechnically it's a covfiefdom.",
">\n\nbegun, the bullshit wars, have",
">\n\nBegun, They've been at the bullshit wars for close to 50 years by now. 😢",
">\n\nsure, but I've been binging battlefront 2 lately so I've had yoda on the brain and the quote seemed somewhat apt",
">\n\nIsn't that on sale for like $5?Any good? I thought about grabbing it but I want to see some gameplay first, plus I'm only 1/2 way through RDR2.",
">\n\nits from like 2018 but there's still a pretty sold online multi-player base, I never have trouble finding matches like with other older online shooters. single player is pretty bland and short so it's more for the online experience",
">\n\nThe type of answer I expected/hoped for",
">\n\nRemember, the GOP has demonstrated in the last 2 years that Congressional subpoenas can be ignored with impunity and without consequence."
] |
>
From September: Fox promoted false talking point that protesting parents were labeled terrorists more than 400 times
Also, these 'school board moms' all seem to be in their late 60's... | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole.",
">\n\nThat's his fiefdom.",
">\n\nTechnically it's a covfiefdom.",
">\n\nbegun, the bullshit wars, have",
">\n\nBegun, They've been at the bullshit wars for close to 50 years by now. 😢",
">\n\nsure, but I've been binging battlefront 2 lately so I've had yoda on the brain and the quote seemed somewhat apt",
">\n\nIsn't that on sale for like $5?Any good? I thought about grabbing it but I want to see some gameplay first, plus I'm only 1/2 way through RDR2.",
">\n\nits from like 2018 but there's still a pretty sold online multi-player base, I never have trouble finding matches like with other older online shooters. single player is pretty bland and short so it's more for the online experience",
">\n\nThe type of answer I expected/hoped for",
">\n\nRemember, the GOP has demonstrated in the last 2 years that Congressional subpoenas can be ignored with impunity and without consequence.",
">\n\nBut any subpoenas THEY issue they expect to be heeded"
] |
>
You think parents actually like this culture war bullshit? | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole.",
">\n\nThat's his fiefdom.",
">\n\nTechnically it's a covfiefdom.",
">\n\nbegun, the bullshit wars, have",
">\n\nBegun, They've been at the bullshit wars for close to 50 years by now. 😢",
">\n\nsure, but I've been binging battlefront 2 lately so I've had yoda on the brain and the quote seemed somewhat apt",
">\n\nIsn't that on sale for like $5?Any good? I thought about grabbing it but I want to see some gameplay first, plus I'm only 1/2 way through RDR2.",
">\n\nits from like 2018 but there's still a pretty sold online multi-player base, I never have trouble finding matches like with other older online shooters. single player is pretty bland and short so it's more for the online experience",
">\n\nThe type of answer I expected/hoped for",
">\n\nRemember, the GOP has demonstrated in the last 2 years that Congressional subpoenas can be ignored with impunity and without consequence.",
">\n\nBut any subpoenas THEY issue they expect to be heeded",
">\n\nFrom September: Fox promoted false talking point that protesting parents were labeled terrorists more than 400 times\nAlso, these 'school board moms' all seem to be in their late 60's..."
] |
>
Some do actually. I’ve lost a few parent friends because the moms got swept up in QAnon shit. I still don’t understand it and it’s bizarre af. All they seem to do now is rant about culture war shit on twitter about kids but with the amount of time they spend on there it doesn’t seem to leave them enough time to spend with their actual kids. It’s actually a disturbingly large, disgusting little world where they’ve all managed to find each other there. Search “angry mom” and that’s in pretty much everyone’s account name somewhere. | [
"The guy issuing these subpoenas just ignored subpoenas from Congress it's insane.",
">\n\nConservatives are above the law and the rest of us are beneath it. Jim Jordan considers himself American royalty and, as a practical matter, he is.",
">\n\nIf he had to compete in a real district he wouldn't even be in Congress. They have to add in prisons where people can't vote to his district to not violate racial gerrymandering laws. The crazy district is what allows him to act like such an extremist asshole.",
">\n\nThat's his fiefdom.",
">\n\nTechnically it's a covfiefdom.",
">\n\nbegun, the bullshit wars, have",
">\n\nBegun, They've been at the bullshit wars for close to 50 years by now. 😢",
">\n\nsure, but I've been binging battlefront 2 lately so I've had yoda on the brain and the quote seemed somewhat apt",
">\n\nIsn't that on sale for like $5?Any good? I thought about grabbing it but I want to see some gameplay first, plus I'm only 1/2 way through RDR2.",
">\n\nits from like 2018 but there's still a pretty sold online multi-player base, I never have trouble finding matches like with other older online shooters. single player is pretty bland and short so it's more for the online experience",
">\n\nThe type of answer I expected/hoped for",
">\n\nRemember, the GOP has demonstrated in the last 2 years that Congressional subpoenas can be ignored with impunity and without consequence.",
">\n\nBut any subpoenas THEY issue they expect to be heeded",
">\n\nFrom September: Fox promoted false talking point that protesting parents were labeled terrorists more than 400 times\nAlso, these 'school board moms' all seem to be in their late 60's...",
">\n\nYou think parents actually like this culture war bullshit?"
] |
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