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innovation-hacking2

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shitposting_dataset1

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[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man," ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too.", ">\n\nName one nation in a conflict that doesn't censor and put out nationalistic/propaganda. Edited to clarify." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too.", ">\n\nName one nation in a conflict that doesn't censor and put out nationalistic/propaganda. Edited to clarify.", ">\n\nExactly man, that is why I'm saying that censoring is not the right call. Once the government censors you from reading international media, you are influenced by your own government and you know and think only what they want you to know and think. Having trust in your own government is ok but trusting it blindly is not. It makes you easily influenced by your own government,a puppet and as you said, every nation in conflict is making propaganda." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too.", ">\n\nName one nation in a conflict that doesn't censor and put out nationalistic/propaganda. Edited to clarify.", ">\n\nExactly man, that is why I'm saying that censoring is not the right call. Once the government censors you from reading international media, you are influenced by your own government and you know and think only what they want you to know and think. Having trust in your own government is ok but trusting it blindly is not. It makes you easily influenced by your own government,a puppet and as you said, every nation in conflict is making propaganda.", ">\n\nNo different than really any other country that has been in a total war. I just hope that's it's a temporary war measure, which I'm not sure it is." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too.", ">\n\nName one nation in a conflict that doesn't censor and put out nationalistic/propaganda. Edited to clarify.", ">\n\nExactly man, that is why I'm saying that censoring is not the right call. Once the government censors you from reading international media, you are influenced by your own government and you know and think only what they want you to know and think. Having trust in your own government is ok but trusting it blindly is not. It makes you easily influenced by your own government,a puppet and as you said, every nation in conflict is making propaganda.", ">\n\nNo different than really any other country that has been in a total war. I just hope that's it's a temporary war measure, which I'm not sure it is.", ">\n\nTotally normal behavior" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too.", ">\n\nName one nation in a conflict that doesn't censor and put out nationalistic/propaganda. Edited to clarify.", ">\n\nExactly man, that is why I'm saying that censoring is not the right call. Once the government censors you from reading international media, you are influenced by your own government and you know and think only what they want you to know and think. Having trust in your own government is ok but trusting it blindly is not. It makes you easily influenced by your own government,a puppet and as you said, every nation in conflict is making propaganda.", ">\n\nNo different than really any other country that has been in a total war. I just hope that's it's a temporary war measure, which I'm not sure it is.", ">\n\nTotally normal behavior", ">\n\nSounds like news sensorship to me.." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too.", ">\n\nName one nation in a conflict that doesn't censor and put out nationalistic/propaganda. Edited to clarify.", ">\n\nExactly man, that is why I'm saying that censoring is not the right call. Once the government censors you from reading international media, you are influenced by your own government and you know and think only what they want you to know and think. Having trust in your own government is ok but trusting it blindly is not. It makes you easily influenced by your own government,a puppet and as you said, every nation in conflict is making propaganda.", ">\n\nNo different than really any other country that has been in a total war. I just hope that's it's a temporary war measure, which I'm not sure it is.", ">\n\nTotally normal behavior", ">\n\nSounds like news sensorship to me..", ">\n\nHope rises. Discontent rises slightly.\nBeware of the poet's suicide.\nP.s. This is a game reference" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too.", ">\n\nName one nation in a conflict that doesn't censor and put out nationalistic/propaganda. Edited to clarify.", ">\n\nExactly man, that is why I'm saying that censoring is not the right call. Once the government censors you from reading international media, you are influenced by your own government and you know and think only what they want you to know and think. Having trust in your own government is ok but trusting it blindly is not. It makes you easily influenced by your own government,a puppet and as you said, every nation in conflict is making propaganda.", ">\n\nNo different than really any other country that has been in a total war. I just hope that's it's a temporary war measure, which I'm not sure it is.", ">\n\nTotally normal behavior", ">\n\nSounds like news sensorship to me..", ">\n\nHope rises. Discontent rises slightly.\nBeware of the poet's suicide.\nP.s. This is a game reference", ">\n\n1000% normal in war times. Many countries have done this before. It's impossible for Ukraine not to do this given how much Russia is investing into disinformation. Literally having speaker cars driving through the streets with propaganda 24/7. Broadcasting fake news into Ukraine through all mediums. If they get to a large group of people in the US imagine the amount of people they can influence when it comes to their neighbors.\nThe only way they can get Ukraine to lose the war is to break the people's will to fight and they're doing this by not only bombing schools, playgrounds, hospitals and powerplants to freeze them to death but also spreading propaganda to make the people second guess their leadership" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too.", ">\n\nName one nation in a conflict that doesn't censor and put out nationalistic/propaganda. Edited to clarify.", ">\n\nExactly man, that is why I'm saying that censoring is not the right call. Once the government censors you from reading international media, you are influenced by your own government and you know and think only what they want you to know and think. Having trust in your own government is ok but trusting it blindly is not. It makes you easily influenced by your own government,a puppet and as you said, every nation in conflict is making propaganda.", ">\n\nNo different than really any other country that has been in a total war. I just hope that's it's a temporary war measure, which I'm not sure it is.", ">\n\nTotally normal behavior", ">\n\nSounds like news sensorship to me..", ">\n\nHope rises. Discontent rises slightly.\nBeware of the poet's suicide.\nP.s. This is a game reference", ">\n\n1000% normal in war times. Many countries have done this before. It's impossible for Ukraine not to do this given how much Russia is investing into disinformation. Literally having speaker cars driving through the streets with propaganda 24/7. Broadcasting fake news into Ukraine through all mediums. If they get to a large group of people in the US imagine the amount of people they can influence when it comes to their neighbors.\nThe only way they can get Ukraine to lose the war is to break the people's will to fight and they're doing this by not only bombing schools, playgrounds, hospitals and powerplants to freeze them to death but also spreading propaganda to make the people second guess their leadership", ">\n\nCountries do this all the time. Even the US.\nStop trying to vilify Ukraine to appease that shit cabbage Putin. Russia invaded them, not the other way around." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too.", ">\n\nName one nation in a conflict that doesn't censor and put out nationalistic/propaganda. Edited to clarify.", ">\n\nExactly man, that is why I'm saying that censoring is not the right call. Once the government censors you from reading international media, you are influenced by your own government and you know and think only what they want you to know and think. Having trust in your own government is ok but trusting it blindly is not. It makes you easily influenced by your own government,a puppet and as you said, every nation in conflict is making propaganda.", ">\n\nNo different than really any other country that has been in a total war. I just hope that's it's a temporary war measure, which I'm not sure it is.", ">\n\nTotally normal behavior", ">\n\nSounds like news sensorship to me..", ">\n\nHope rises. Discontent rises slightly.\nBeware of the poet's suicide.\nP.s. This is a game reference", ">\n\n1000% normal in war times. Many countries have done this before. It's impossible for Ukraine not to do this given how much Russia is investing into disinformation. Literally having speaker cars driving through the streets with propaganda 24/7. Broadcasting fake news into Ukraine through all mediums. If they get to a large group of people in the US imagine the amount of people they can influence when it comes to their neighbors.\nThe only way they can get Ukraine to lose the war is to break the people's will to fight and they're doing this by not only bombing schools, playgrounds, hospitals and powerplants to freeze them to death but also spreading propaganda to make the people second guess their leadership", ">\n\nCountries do this all the time. Even the US.\nStop trying to vilify Ukraine to appease that shit cabbage Putin. Russia invaded them, not the other way around.", ">\n\nI love watching people try to balance not being called out on ignoring Ukraine's pre-existing corruption and keeping the \"Ukraine = unquestionable good guys\" narrative.\nThere's nothing that says war HAS to be \"good guys vs bad guys\"." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too.", ">\n\nName one nation in a conflict that doesn't censor and put out nationalistic/propaganda. Edited to clarify.", ">\n\nExactly man, that is why I'm saying that censoring is not the right call. Once the government censors you from reading international media, you are influenced by your own government and you know and think only what they want you to know and think. Having trust in your own government is ok but trusting it blindly is not. It makes you easily influenced by your own government,a puppet and as you said, every nation in conflict is making propaganda.", ">\n\nNo different than really any other country that has been in a total war. I just hope that's it's a temporary war measure, which I'm not sure it is.", ">\n\nTotally normal behavior", ">\n\nSounds like news sensorship to me..", ">\n\nHope rises. Discontent rises slightly.\nBeware of the poet's suicide.\nP.s. This is a game reference", ">\n\n1000% normal in war times. Many countries have done this before. It's impossible for Ukraine not to do this given how much Russia is investing into disinformation. Literally having speaker cars driving through the streets with propaganda 24/7. Broadcasting fake news into Ukraine through all mediums. If they get to a large group of people in the US imagine the amount of people they can influence when it comes to their neighbors.\nThe only way they can get Ukraine to lose the war is to break the people's will to fight and they're doing this by not only bombing schools, playgrounds, hospitals and powerplants to freeze them to death but also spreading propaganda to make the people second guess their leadership", ">\n\nCountries do this all the time. Even the US.\nStop trying to vilify Ukraine to appease that shit cabbage Putin. Russia invaded them, not the other way around.", ">\n\nI love watching people try to balance not being called out on ignoring Ukraine's pre-existing corruption and keeping the \"Ukraine = unquestionable good guys\" narrative.\nThere's nothing that says war HAS to be \"good guys vs bad guys\".", ">\n\nPeople have every right to complain about this. But remember Ukraine is fighting in the fields for their very existence." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too.", ">\n\nName one nation in a conflict that doesn't censor and put out nationalistic/propaganda. Edited to clarify.", ">\n\nExactly man, that is why I'm saying that censoring is not the right call. Once the government censors you from reading international media, you are influenced by your own government and you know and think only what they want you to know and think. Having trust in your own government is ok but trusting it blindly is not. It makes you easily influenced by your own government,a puppet and as you said, every nation in conflict is making propaganda.", ">\n\nNo different than really any other country that has been in a total war. I just hope that's it's a temporary war measure, which I'm not sure it is.", ">\n\nTotally normal behavior", ">\n\nSounds like news sensorship to me..", ">\n\nHope rises. Discontent rises slightly.\nBeware of the poet's suicide.\nP.s. This is a game reference", ">\n\n1000% normal in war times. Many countries have done this before. It's impossible for Ukraine not to do this given how much Russia is investing into disinformation. Literally having speaker cars driving through the streets with propaganda 24/7. Broadcasting fake news into Ukraine through all mediums. If they get to a large group of people in the US imagine the amount of people they can influence when it comes to their neighbors.\nThe only way they can get Ukraine to lose the war is to break the people's will to fight and they're doing this by not only bombing schools, playgrounds, hospitals and powerplants to freeze them to death but also spreading propaganda to make the people second guess their leadership", ">\n\nCountries do this all the time. Even the US.\nStop trying to vilify Ukraine to appease that shit cabbage Putin. Russia invaded them, not the other way around.", ">\n\nI love watching people try to balance not being called out on ignoring Ukraine's pre-existing corruption and keeping the \"Ukraine = unquestionable good guys\" narrative.\nThere's nothing that says war HAS to be \"good guys vs bad guys\".", ">\n\nPeople have every right to complain about this. But remember Ukraine is fighting in the fields for their very existence.", ">\n\nZelensky understands Democracy more than people think. He's most likely changing it now because of the WAR so that not much information gets back to the enemy.. Remember when Ukraine did both big successful offensives they had a Media Blackout." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"", ">\n\nAnd so it begins.", ">\n\nI wonder how many pro-working class news outlets will suddenly be removed because they’re critical of Ukraine’s bourgeois government.", ">\n\nThe west is gonna act shocked when this war is over and it turns out Ukraine is still a corrupt place, but saying that makes me pro Russian or some shit", ">\n\nWhat irks me is them saying that being in the EU will supposedly make things better…", ">\n\nAs a country at war, censorship is not surprising. What will be telling is how they behave once the war is over.", ">\n\nSomething a totally not fascist would do, right?", ">\n\nwhen news reporting is killing your soldiers", ">\n\nHe already banned opposing political parties. What’s next?", ">\n\nThey also banned Russian and Rusyn languages schools. Its an ethnostate, simple as.", ">\n\nWar tends to be bad for freedom of speech. The Ukrainian people have a right to hear what pro-Russian media is saying.", ">\n\nAnd yet people claim that this guy is the savior of democracy? Aahahahahah, m'kay.", ">\n\nHonestly this isn't news. Countries are well known for curtailing news reporting during wartime. The US and UK did it during WW2. You don't want news media reporting the location of your troops or movements. \nThe test to democracy isn't what's passed during wartime, it's what's rescinded when war is over. When Ukraine eventually wins, the question will be how well do they transition to functioning, minimally corrupt transparent democracy. Will Zelensky and his successors freely give up power? Will the people elect fascist white nationalists who contributed to the war effort? The future remains to be seen. Well intentions can easily be lead astray.", ">\n\n“Could” is probably doing a lot of work here.", ">\n\nThe problem with that is that it shouldn’t. Laws need to be scoped heavily, or they will be rife with abuse.", ">\n\nSo censorship is suddenly ok because someone that’s not Russia did it.", ">\n\nThe headline sounds terrible. However reading helps add sense to it. \nBut I can't help to wonder whether blocking news websites due to \"weaponized media\" is a good thing or bad thing. I feel there's a gray line here that could be getting crossed and one has to question \"Is this propaganda that's being blocked, or is this our country censoring media brainwashing us in an attempt to strengthen their resolve?\" \nI'm all for Ukraine in this war, but in terms of a country censoring media, it's well.... a sticky subject. What action is the correct action when your enemies are using it as a weapon to confuse the public opinion?", ">\n\nI have no problem with this, RT is blocked in my country and Europe", ">\n\nafaik this is just ukraine setting up a media regulator along EU directives - all countries must have these mechanisms.", ">\n\nEU directives aren’t regulated by the government. Ukraine’s will be", ">\n\nDuring war time, I think that's fine. It's important to minimize Russian propaganda and to make sure no military information gets leaked.", ">\n\nIf the independent regulator can't be trusted during war time, why can it be trusted during peace time?", ">\n\nTo be very clear, this is many steps too far for peacetime and this bill isn't limited to wartime.\nI'm not Ukrainian and not an expert on the bill by any means but placing this under the same umbrella as the ~~federal~~ national government is dangerous and exposes the country to big problems down the road.\nI could defend it if the bill explicitly was for wartime. And many bills have expiration dates. But this is not good.", ">\n\nBut I thought he was about democracy?", ">\n\nGood if it's for the russian news websites only!\nNow, how about Ukraine's president fix that law forbidding romanian language to be taught to the romanian minority in Ukraine?\nAr we good neighbors respecting each other or are we not?", ">\n\nFinally someone who understands what is going on here.", ">\n\nGenius", ">\n\nAuto correct typo in my first post! Fixed.\nNot at all supporting suppression of dissent, but there has to be some way to block intentionally slander and misinformation, the hawking of all out lies through garbage like Alex Jones from bending the public discourse, and causing serious social harm. \nParading conspiracy theories or promoting propaganda created by the FSB to destabilize democracy isn't journalism, and isn't news. Legit journalism runs on facts and as such self corrects as better information comes to light. Propaganda either points to a new distraction or digs deeper into a lie, as do its adherents.", ">\n\nNo idea what people are complaining about. Ukraine had pro-Russian politicians in the parliament, russian fake news and pro-russian KGB \"church\" freely acting in Ukraine for years right before the invasion. The real question is why the didn't shut down them long before.", ">\n\nThe Smith act of 1940 comes to mind.\nUkraine is under threat of genocide. Let's see what happens after they win.", ">\n\nWe need to close/block russian or pro-russian websites.", ">\n\nOh no!", ">\n\nI just know its going to be a dark day if news reporters/programs are no longer allowed to make up news and are required to tell the entire story about something. \nSadly if you take away the freedom to blabber from a roof top, you also take away freedom of press", ">\n\nWhy not, news websites are a weapon and can be used by either side.", ">\n\nHmmmm. Interesting", ">\n\nThe beginning of the end", ">\n\nSuch a fascist", ">\n\nChurches next?", ">\n\nAlready", ">\n\nIt's very reasonable to find this offputting, but a ton of westerners are showing their chauvinism in this thread. Acting like any/every NATO country hasn't/wouldn't do this in times of war or great conflict is just asinine, governments pretty much everywhere will regulate whose propaganda is legal and whose isn't. Not saying it's always justified, but many westerners are acting like their shit don't stink.", ">\n\nBaltics and lot of EU countries have banned russian propoganda chanels. I agree with this. Russian propoganda is no joke and i would not recomend it for uninitiated.", ">\n\nThey didn’t ban Russian propaganda channels. Law allows government to block any news website they feel necessary. Given the track record of corruption in Ukrainian governance, this can’t be good.\nEdit: grammar", ">\n\nHaving a standard of what qualifies as news while engaged in a propaganda attack from a country several times your size if propferly monitored information through a board and independent laws could be a net positive\nI’m the USA the repeal of the fairness doctorine is often sited as a reason the news ended up with broadcasters telling people not to take a vaccine during a pandemic", ">\n\nWonder if Zelenskky will be Ukraine's ~~Dictator~~ President in 10 years time.", ">\n\nGet your popcorn while redditors try to tell you why this is a good thing and Zelensky can do no wrong", ">\n\nYikes", ">\n\nUkraine was corrupt as all hell before Russia invaded, and continue corrupt and not worthy of trust. Just because they're fighting for their sovereignty against Putin's evil ass doesn't mean they get a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want and pass it off as correct or for some greater good. This is authoritarian bullshit, nothing else.", ">\n\nIt's quite interesting to see the Zelensky fan boys doing their mental gymnastics to defend this policy. Having a government control what you can see is not good at all: it's a tactic thar has been used by most of the worst rulers in history: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.", ">\n\nI can understand why but honestly I think it’s a very slippery slope that most humans aren’t able to handle. Where’s the line at what is ok and what isn’t. A human decides that and humans are fallible.", ">\n\nThey were right to question this move. I hope the good President/Warrior isn't losing his head. This war is insane.", ">\n\nOne the one hand not too good depending on Implementation. One the other hand the legal framework to go against russian propaganda, misinformation and other Media based attenpts against ukraine.", ">\n\nThere is a lot of anti-Ukraine posts on OP’s profile, take this news with a grain of salt", ">\n\nThe UK blocked Russia Today and Sputnik from UK Satellites to stop their propoganda. It's a sensible thing to do in times of conflict.. we did the same to Nazi Germany also.", ">\n\nI think I just lost all respect for this guy", ">\n\nSecond most corrupt country in Europe (after Russia)... What else do you expect.", ">\n\nTough to balance government overreach against foreign interference.", ">\n\nThat's not good.", ">\n\nDon't pull a \"Russia\" bro. Wrong path to be taking.", ">\n\nYou do realize Russian propaganda channels are there and available to zombify people?\nI have spent so much of my personal time to report Youtube Channel24 videos and you have to show in each video where there is an explicit piece where there was a terrorist speech, it is tedious !! Also, noone seem to read an article cause the content is not like that at all", ">\n\nFor some people (especially here on reddit lmao) russian propaganda is any piece of informations you disagree with, and anyone saying it is either a bot or russian troll", ">\n\nRemember when the Russians invaded claiming there were Nazis in Ukraine?\nPepperidge Farms remembers.", ">\n\nPutin is not the good guy, but this doesn't mean Zelensky and the Ukranian government are a bunch of angels.", ">\n\nHe has cracked down on unions too.", ">\n\nDuring the civil war Lincoln has confederate sympathizing reports thrown in jail without trial. \nThis is not new", ">\n\nSomething seriously off with this man,", ">\n\nI’m sure when peace arrives, and one day Zelenskyy is replaced by a nefarious leader this law will also be remove right? Right?", ">\n\nLol watching this happen in slow motion while supposed lovers of freedom and the Ukrainian people just worship this man, who is an actor and he’s just gradually changing his role.", ">\n\nFreedom of speech? Hahaha, this is no better than Russia or China.", ">\n\nWhat a fucking dishonest headline. Shame on this publisher.", ">\n\nThis is a heck of a misleading headline, the law outlines blatant Russian propaganda sites as the issue. This is almost as bad as the reporting of them “banning orthodox religion” no they banned the orthodox Russian church, that church was using their religion as a cover to transport information back to Russia.", ">\n\nBad idea.", ">\n\nRussian propaganda is no joke and Ukraine probably needs the ability to block it. It's a shame this wasn't passed as wartime emergency legislation with an automatic repeal date though.", ">\n\nNothing to see here, just the good guys fighting against evil Russia 😅", ">\n\nAnd down the slippery slope we continue to slide.", ">\n\nHalf the problem with war now is the media giving g the game away ... there should 100% be restrictions on what the media can post during war time", ">\n\nWell, this headline is awful. First of all we already have such thing since 2015 I believe (one of popular examples is \"vk\" website), secondly - it's just EU standards. \nBtw we still don't have \"war censorship\", you can critisize government all you want.", ">\n\nImagine defending media censorship. China must be proud", ">\n\nRussia does exactly the same thing blocking websites that they consider to be spreading misinformation. And this is obviously bad.\nYet, the amount of double standards in this thread with people thinking that \"it's fine when Ukraine does it\" is absurd.\nBefore the war Ukraine was always on the top positions of most corrupt countries in Europe. This law WILL be abused.", ">\n\nRemember when he said he wanted to run his country more like a democracy…yeah, he just wants those dollars from the U.S", ">\n\nYup this is not the right way to do stuff... If you really wanna show that you are cleaning up the corruptness in your country then don't start making laws like this shit.", ">\n\nVery freedom loving and democratic", ">\n\nNothing says countering russian propaganda like censorship and more propaganda 👍", ">\n\nWatch Ukraine turn into a brutal dictatorship lead by the dancing with the stars jokey guy.", ">\n\nIts the same laws that govern the EU.", ">\n\nWell the corruption continues. “I think it’s good when we do it” Is not a good justification.", ">\n\nDictator for life", ">\n\nIt should only be valid as long as the war against Russia.", ">\n\nRussian \"new\" Websites, which actually are just propaganda machineries, should ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE be blocked.", ">\n\nUkraine has its own propaganda too.", ">\n\nName one nation in a conflict that doesn't censor and put out nationalistic/propaganda. Edited to clarify.", ">\n\nExactly man, that is why I'm saying that censoring is not the right call. Once the government censors you from reading international media, you are influenced by your own government and you know and think only what they want you to know and think. Having trust in your own government is ok but trusting it blindly is not. It makes you easily influenced by your own government,a puppet and as you said, every nation in conflict is making propaganda.", ">\n\nNo different than really any other country that has been in a total war. I just hope that's it's a temporary war measure, which I'm not sure it is.", ">\n\nTotally normal behavior", ">\n\nSounds like news sensorship to me..", ">\n\nHope rises. Discontent rises slightly.\nBeware of the poet's suicide.\nP.s. This is a game reference", ">\n\n1000% normal in war times. Many countries have done this before. It's impossible for Ukraine not to do this given how much Russia is investing into disinformation. Literally having speaker cars driving through the streets with propaganda 24/7. Broadcasting fake news into Ukraine through all mediums. If they get to a large group of people in the US imagine the amount of people they can influence when it comes to their neighbors.\nThe only way they can get Ukraine to lose the war is to break the people's will to fight and they're doing this by not only bombing schools, playgrounds, hospitals and powerplants to freeze them to death but also spreading propaganda to make the people second guess their leadership", ">\n\nCountries do this all the time. Even the US.\nStop trying to vilify Ukraine to appease that shit cabbage Putin. Russia invaded them, not the other way around.", ">\n\nI love watching people try to balance not being called out on ignoring Ukraine's pre-existing corruption and keeping the \"Ukraine = unquestionable good guys\" narrative.\nThere's nothing that says war HAS to be \"good guys vs bad guys\".", ">\n\nPeople have every right to complain about this. But remember Ukraine is fighting in the fields for their very existence.", ">\n\nZelensky understands Democracy more than people think. He's most likely changing it now because of the WAR so that not much information gets back to the enemy.. Remember when Ukraine did both big successful offensives they had a Media Blackout.", ">\n\nOnly state-approved propaganda is authorized" ]