Datasets:

---

innovation-hacking2

/

shitposting_dataset1

like 0

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible", ">\n\nOh my god what happened??" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible", ">\n\nOh my god what happened??", ">\n\nMotorcycle accident." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible", ">\n\nOh my god what happened??", ">\n\nMotorcycle accident.", ">\n\nWhat does Bobby B have to say about this?.....Bobby??" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible", ">\n\nOh my god what happened??", ">\n\nMotorcycle accident.", ">\n\nWhat does Bobby B have to say about this?.....Bobby??", ">\n\nSo, have we, as a world, officially lost anyone and everyone that could have been born in the 1800’s? I mean I get it with the US, but it’s kind of crazy to think that someone would need to be at least 123 years old to have been born in 1899 and it’s kind of sobering to know that anyone who lived in that entire century, is gone." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible", ">\n\nOh my god what happened??", ">\n\nMotorcycle accident.", ">\n\nWhat does Bobby B have to say about this?.....Bobby??", ">\n\nSo, have we, as a world, officially lost anyone and everyone that could have been born in the 1800’s? I mean I get it with the US, but it’s kind of crazy to think that someone would need to be at least 123 years old to have been born in 1899 and it’s kind of sobering to know that anyone who lived in that entire century, is gone.", ">\n\nWhen she was born, in the same city in which she lived and died, it didn't have salt yet. /s\nRIP" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible", ">\n\nOh my god what happened??", ">\n\nMotorcycle accident.", ">\n\nWhat does Bobby B have to say about this?.....Bobby??", ">\n\nSo, have we, as a world, officially lost anyone and everyone that could have been born in the 1800’s? I mean I get it with the US, but it’s kind of crazy to think that someone would need to be at least 123 years old to have been born in 1899 and it’s kind of sobering to know that anyone who lived in that entire century, is gone.", ">\n\nWhen she was born, in the same city in which she lived and died, it didn't have salt yet. /s\nRIP", ">\n\nWhy does this keep happening?!?!?!?" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible", ">\n\nOh my god what happened??", ">\n\nMotorcycle accident.", ">\n\nWhat does Bobby B have to say about this?.....Bobby??", ">\n\nSo, have we, as a world, officially lost anyone and everyone that could have been born in the 1800’s? I mean I get it with the US, but it’s kind of crazy to think that someone would need to be at least 123 years old to have been born in 1899 and it’s kind of sobering to know that anyone who lived in that entire century, is gone.", ">\n\nWhen she was born, in the same city in which she lived and died, it didn't have salt yet. /s\nRIP", ">\n\nWhy does this keep happening?!?!?!?", ">\n\nUnimpressed. 115 year old people seemed way older when I was a kid. They've gone way downhill. You kids today wouldn't even know." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible", ">\n\nOh my god what happened??", ">\n\nMotorcycle accident.", ">\n\nWhat does Bobby B have to say about this?.....Bobby??", ">\n\nSo, have we, as a world, officially lost anyone and everyone that could have been born in the 1800’s? I mean I get it with the US, but it’s kind of crazy to think that someone would need to be at least 123 years old to have been born in 1899 and it’s kind of sobering to know that anyone who lived in that entire century, is gone.", ">\n\nWhen she was born, in the same city in which she lived and died, it didn't have salt yet. /s\nRIP", ">\n\nWhy does this keep happening?!?!?!?", ">\n\nUnimpressed. 115 year old people seemed way older when I was a kid. They've gone way downhill. You kids today wouldn't even know.", ">\n\n\nThey've gone way downhill.\n\nAnd then back up the other side, barefoot, and with a stack of bricks." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible", ">\n\nOh my god what happened??", ">\n\nMotorcycle accident.", ">\n\nWhat does Bobby B have to say about this?.....Bobby??", ">\n\nSo, have we, as a world, officially lost anyone and everyone that could have been born in the 1800’s? I mean I get it with the US, but it’s kind of crazy to think that someone would need to be at least 123 years old to have been born in 1899 and it’s kind of sobering to know that anyone who lived in that entire century, is gone.", ">\n\nWhen she was born, in the same city in which she lived and died, it didn't have salt yet. /s\nRIP", ">\n\nWhy does this keep happening?!?!?!?", ">\n\nUnimpressed. 115 year old people seemed way older when I was a kid. They've gone way downhill. You kids today wouldn't even know.", ">\n\n\nThey've gone way downhill.\n\nAnd then back up the other side, barefoot, and with a stack of bricks.", ">\n\nLmao, perfect" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible", ">\n\nOh my god what happened??", ">\n\nMotorcycle accident.", ">\n\nWhat does Bobby B have to say about this?.....Bobby??", ">\n\nSo, have we, as a world, officially lost anyone and everyone that could have been born in the 1800’s? I mean I get it with the US, but it’s kind of crazy to think that someone would need to be at least 123 years old to have been born in 1899 and it’s kind of sobering to know that anyone who lived in that entire century, is gone.", ">\n\nWhen she was born, in the same city in which she lived and died, it didn't have salt yet. /s\nRIP", ">\n\nWhy does this keep happening?!?!?!?", ">\n\nUnimpressed. 115 year old people seemed way older when I was a kid. They've gone way downhill. You kids today wouldn't even know.", ">\n\n\nThey've gone way downhill.\n\nAnd then back up the other side, barefoot, and with a stack of bricks.", ">\n\nLmao, perfect", ">\n\nDamn, she’s so old she switched genders in the end." ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible", ">\n\nOh my god what happened??", ">\n\nMotorcycle accident.", ">\n\nWhat does Bobby B have to say about this?.....Bobby??", ">\n\nSo, have we, as a world, officially lost anyone and everyone that could have been born in the 1800’s? I mean I get it with the US, but it’s kind of crazy to think that someone would need to be at least 123 years old to have been born in 1899 and it’s kind of sobering to know that anyone who lived in that entire century, is gone.", ">\n\nWhen she was born, in the same city in which she lived and died, it didn't have salt yet. /s\nRIP", ">\n\nWhy does this keep happening?!?!?!?", ">\n\nUnimpressed. 115 year old people seemed way older when I was a kid. They've gone way downhill. You kids today wouldn't even know.", ">\n\n\nThey've gone way downhill.\n\nAnd then back up the other side, barefoot, and with a stack of bricks.", ">\n\nLmao, perfect", ">\n\nDamn, she’s so old she switched genders in the end.", ">\n\nOnly the good die young" ]

[ "For reference, this woman was:\n- 6 years old when World War One began\n- 21 years old when the stock market crashed\n- 32 years old when WW2 began in Europe and 35 when the US entered\n- 42 years old when the Korean War began\n- 59 years old during the Summer of Love\n- 61 years old when the first moon landing occurred\n- 67 years old when Saigon fell to the North Vietnamese\n- 73 years old (by three days) when Reagan was elected president\n- 82 years old (by two days) when the Berlin Wall fell\n- 84 years old when the USSR ceased to exist\n- 93 years old on 9/11\n- 100 years old when Barack Obama was elected president \nNeedless to say, it's hard to even imagine the level of change she experienced over the course of her life.", ">\n\nWhoa. The 911 and USSR ones seem crazy to me.", ">\n\nDidn’t even mention 11ish 1919 when the USSR began, 5 years after WW1 started. So she out lasted it", ">\n\nThe USSR only lasted 70ish years, so I imagine quite a lot of the people born in the years leading up to its formation outlived it.", ">\n\nYeah my paternal great grandparents outlived it by nearly 20 years and were born a few years before it.", ">\n\n\nAt her 110th birthday party in 2017, Bessie told us that the secret to a long life was hard work\n\nI'm gonna side with the centurians who claim it's whiskey and bacon every day", ">\n\nI’m beginning to think these folks have no fucking clue how they ended up living so long", ">\n\nGenetics, good health, and a shit ton of good luck (or bad depending on your perspective).", ">\n\nYou're right and I really wonder if diet has anything to do with it. My MIL is 98 and has always eaten like a little kid ( mac and cheese, tea and toast, cookies and cakes , sips juice all day) never eats vegetables and grew up on all canned goods but she has absolutely no health problems. She can't figure out why she is alive either, besides the \" shit ton of good luck\".", ">\n\nProbably has some great quest she needs to complete before she's allowed to pass.", ">\n\nDang, I am not financially preparing for 50 years of retirement.", ">\n\nI’m female and 69 years old. I just realized I am in great health so I could have 30 more years!", ">\n\nYea but will you 69 one last time before you turn 70?", ">\n\nIt is a worthy goal.", ">\n\nDon't let your dreams be dreams", ">\n\nNow there's a new oldest person. I wonder how often this torch is passed.", ">\n\nI'm like 90% sure there are a couple people currently living that were already older.\nEdit: nevermind, overlooked the \"in US\" part", ">\n\nBessie Hendricks, died 115, shot by the police in a daring day light bank hold up.", ">\n\nI was sure she'd go out trying to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle.", ">\n\nThat was her escape route alright.", ">\n\nAll of these people who are “Oldest In The ____” keep dying. Definitely not a title one wants to have…", ">\n\nIt’s almost as if there’s a correlation between age and chances of death.", ">\n\nThat's why I've decided not to age.", ">\n\nWild. She crashed her motorcycle doing a wheelie on the highway.", ">\n\n(former) oldest living squid", ">\n\nTomorrow on my Facebook feed:\n\"Let me guess, she got THE JAB, right?\"", ">\n\nYour fault for opening facebook", ">\n\nEvery time a verified oldest person passes away, hundreds come out of the woodwork with the most disheveled old man they can find with stories like \"oh yeah my neighbor's grand uncle is definitely 150, they just didn't have papers back then\". Looks like we made it to the thread before that!!\nIt gets even more exciting when it's a world record holder because then every remote mountain in the world suddenly becomes ideal conditions to absolutely shatter longevity records for a few hours, along with the usual facebook-level wisdom about how the air from their neck of the woods has magical purity allowing this astounding record that the press doesn't want you to know about!\nSorry, I got carried away with satire here, guess I'm passionate about that trope.\nRIP Bessie ❤", ">\n\nAnd now begins the search for her successor.", ">\n\nThere's already a running list of really old people. Edie Ceccarelli was born a couple of months after her and is now the oldest living person in the US. A couple months after her is Hazel Plummer. The oldest person in the world is in France, she'll turn 119 next month.", ">\n\n1907... she has seen some scheisse", ">\n\nLiterally was too old for this shit. \nRest in power, Queen.", ">\n\nA true living fossil. What an incredible life.", ">\n\nAlso the last person ever to be named Bessie.", ">\n\nGoodbye, Bessie Mae - Jimi Hendrix\nThat's what comes to mind when I hear the name Bessie.", ">\n\nAmazing a person can live to 100 plus 15 years.", ">\n\nImagine having some great great grandchild born when you're 97 and getting to see them graduate high school", ">\n\nI saw a great documentary a few years ago about people who lived past 100. It was great because not only was it the happy positive folks the media shows us, but some said they were “done” and pissed off they were still alive. \nAll of that “think positive to be healthy” is mostly BS and I get frustrated seeing it so seeing reality reflected made me happy. Americans hate to reference genetics because we need the illusion of control. It makes me angry but I try to control myself.", ">\n\nGenetics are important.\nBut people should not adopt a passive, fatalistic, or nihilistic mindset when it comes to their health...and that is where Americans are trending, seems to me. Bessie might not have had lived an especially healthy lifestyle. That does not mean a healthy lifestyle does not increase the likelihood of a long, healthy life.\nI am not trying to live to 115 because I don't think I will have enough money or human capital to support that dream. But I do want to be spry in my 70s and 80s, at least. I do not trust that my genes and luck alone will make this happen.", ">\n\nI'm not trying but it'll probably happen anyways.", ">\n\nShe live through everything, shit", ">\n\nThe \"World\"s Oldest Person' seems to die with astonishing regularity.\nI'm starting to the the position is cursed.", ">\n\nKumite claims another warrior", ">\n\nWhy does he take them so young?", ">\n\nMad, in this image she looked like my late nan’s age, and she was in her 80s", ">\n\nI don't think I ever want to be the oldest person in the world.\nOne day my grandma said to me that she never wants to be so old that she is one of those people that is hunched over a birthday cake looking miserable while the family celebrates and they don't even know what's going on. (I don't know that this woman ever was like that) \nAnd for a moment I was concerned because no one wants to hear their grandma that they are really close to say that they don't want to live as long as possible, but then I thought about it and really honestly same. \nShe's in her mid 80s right now and she can still get up and get a shower, get something to eat, hop on the bus that takes her places, get her hair cut, get a pedicure, go to the store. \nShe gets tired easy but she can live life. She watches TV, she talks to us on the phone, she bitches about her cell phone. All the things I do lol. \nAs long as she can do that stuff she's good. She just doesn't want to be one of those folks that literally can't move.", ">\n\nI fully agree with her if we're being honest. People sometimes get to a point in their lives, either through advanced age or chronic illness, when they decide they've lived long enough. The time I've already spent on this Earth has been a struggle for survival at points. Living to 100 years doesn't sound appealing when you remember that most people you have known have died.\nOne of my fears is dementia since it runs in my family. It would be horrible if I ever got to the point where I'm not realizing that I'm pissing myself. I made my sister promise that if I ever get that bad, I want her to Ol' Yeller me.", ">\n\nNah I'd rather not live to see everyone I know die", ">\n\nMy grandmother died a few days ago. She was 105. Was married 72 years to my grandfather, who passed away 9 or 10 years ago", ">\n\nAnybody check on the whereabouts of the previously second-oldest person in the US at the time?", ">\n\nMeanwhile, the oldest person in the world, Lucile Randon, is 118 and lives on.", ">\n\nMy favorite headline for this event is, \"Oldest person in America is now someone else.\"", ">\n\nWhat did she die of, losing control of and wrecking her Corvette?", ">\n\nI wonder how many kids/ grand/ great / great great grandkids she has. I’m going to guess 82", ">\n\n“She raised a family that grew to include five children, nine grandchildren, 28 great-grandchildren and 42 great-great-grandchildren.”", ">\n\nMust be comforting to know your legacy will endure. The only thing that could stop it would be apocalyptic war, even then if they are spread out enough in the world it would be pretty safe.", ">\n\ncrazy to think that there is probably a 100 year old who has been wishing her dead for a while", ">\n\nI assume LC Quiet Pills were involved.", ">\n\nThey say \"only the good die young\" so she's gotta be pretty terrible", ">\n\nOh my god what happened??", ">\n\nMotorcycle accident.", ">\n\nWhat does Bobby B have to say about this?.....Bobby??", ">\n\nSo, have we, as a world, officially lost anyone and everyone that could have been born in the 1800’s? I mean I get it with the US, but it’s kind of crazy to think that someone would need to be at least 123 years old to have been born in 1899 and it’s kind of sobering to know that anyone who lived in that entire century, is gone.", ">\n\nWhen she was born, in the same city in which she lived and died, it didn't have salt yet. /s\nRIP", ">\n\nWhy does this keep happening?!?!?!?", ">\n\nUnimpressed. 115 year old people seemed way older when I was a kid. They've gone way downhill. You kids today wouldn't even know.", ">\n\n\nThey've gone way downhill.\n\nAnd then back up the other side, barefoot, and with a stack of bricks.", ">\n\nLmao, perfect", ">\n\nDamn, she’s so old she switched genders in the end.", ">\n\nOnly the good die young", ">\n\nWell that was… unexpected." ]

[]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says..." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes…." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\"." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started." ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south" ]

[ "Just curious, how did the US regulate media during WWII if at all? Obviously the war department was churning out war news and propaganda, but did they censor/restrict any media from being published?", ">\n\nYes, absolutely. They formed the Office of Censorship and heavily regulated the press, especially radio. But it was almost entirely geared towards preventing information on troop movements and weather from getting out, and coded enemy messages from getting in. They didn't force stations to broadcast propaganda or ban negative stories, and most of the restrictions were followed voluntarily.\nThere was also the Office of War Information which was responsible for producing propaganda and rejected film scripts that were critical or negative regarding the war effort - but they did not restrict the press to my knowledge.", ">\n\nSuper interesting! Thanks for sharing. Yes it seems this was a bit more functional about what comes in and out of the country, not necessarily with what’s published domestically as far as swaying public opinion. Also TIL the catch phrase “loose lips sink ships” came from this agency.\nThe voluntary aspect is somewhat enlightening as to how unified the country was in the war effort. The cynic in me makes me even more curious if there was other censorship at play outside of this agency that helped create that sentiment. I feel like someone would have replied about some landmark Supreme Court case by now though if that were the case.", ">\n\nAmerican's have a curious ability to get in line when there is a clear and present danger to the nation. Someone summed it up with \"You can always count on American's to do the right thing when they have no other option.\"", ">\n\nWinston Churchill famously stated “Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.\"\nIs that the quote you are thinking of?", ">\n\nIt was attributed to him, but tracing things down, it was apparent not said by him and I’ve heard both versions.", ">\n\nLawmakers have touted the bill as an effort to bring Ukraine's media laws closer to European Union standards as the country makes a bid to join the 27-member bloc. They have also argued that it will help counter Russian propaganda as Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary.\nBut organizations representing journalists say the law will erode press freedoms in Ukraine. Under the law, Ukraine's media regulator could block websites that are not registered with the government as news organizations, The Kyiv Independent reported on Friday. \nThe law is at odds with freedoms given to the press in other parts of Europe, the European Federation of Journalists said in a statement on Friday, according to the Times. \nEdit: because some users argued (with justification) that my post kept specific details hidden, I added the rest of the news post. I also checked the Kyiv Independent and it checks out.", ">\n\nWhile this is true, if I'm not mistaken some EU members have still spoken out against the bill - mainly because the new regulatory body will be led/run by the federal government, whereas in the EU they're generally a separate entity from the government run by civilians\nStill a step in the right direction, but I can see where people worry", ">\n\nHow is censorship a right step in any direction?", ">\n\nIt's indeed a double edged sword. On the one hand self-proclaimed news networks might spread their political agenda or incite illegal behaviour, on the other hand it's a real shortcut to control the media. This needs to be handled very carefully and probably by a body that's not interwoven with the government.", ">\n\nThere are few good options in war, especially a total war where the very survival of a country and ethnolinguistic group is at risk. Zelenskyy is probably going a bit far, but it’s hard to really blame him.", ">\n\nDepends on what the censorship is… trying to dispel discontentment with current ruling party or suppressing enemy state misinformation.", ">\n\nI think it's safe to infer the reasoning is to filter propaganda. I don't think there is much discontent with the current ruling party. Zelensky\"s approval ratings have been through the roof. Although, it's an easy power to abuse in the wrong hands.", ">\n\nI mean, can you think of a single instance in history where censorship was a net societal benefit, rolled back when no longer necessary, and not abused over the long-term? Nothing comes to mind.\nJournalists surely also know this to be the case, hence their outspoken opposition to the measure.", ">\n\nAbraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in the civil war is probably the best example for Americans in here. Would it be tolerated during peacetime? hell no. Would it be tolerated when the entire country is at an inflection point like the Ukraine is in 2023 and the US in 1861. Yes.\nedit: left out Abe's last name", ">\n\nWhat's it like to be on a first-name basis with Abraham Lincoln?", ">\n\nIt does make sense to block Russian \"news\" channels but its easily open to abuse", ">\n\nThis. Sounds like the Sedition Act of 1917. Easy to pass during wartime and makes sense, but probably wouldn’t get passed during peacetime. \nIt also doesn’t help that Ukraine was like #31 on the world’s corruption index prior to the war.", ">\n\nI vaguely recall reading that prior to the war Ukraine was the second most corrupt country in Europe, behind Russia.", ">\n\nThat's pretty much why Zelensky won the elections, he ran on an anti-corruption platform and has actually done a lot to combat it", ">\n\nLike what?", ">\n\nno more oligarchs", ">\n\nYou really think he ended the oligarchy? And it will only get 100x worse after the war when western businessmen come in to “fix” the country.", ">\n\nLmao this. We should all remember that he was also named in the Panama papers for holding 20+ million overseas", ">\n\nWhats so weird about successful actor having 20million to their name?", ">\n\nThey’ve been blocking the BBC on and off for years.", ">\n\nOne of the biggest lessons the world will learn from this conflict is that while Ukraine is/are the good guys… they are far, far behind a system that is akin to the western world.\nmy father’s grandfather was from Ukraine.\nAs he likes to say, Ukraine had 30 years to get their shit together so that when this day (02/24/22, Russia’s invasion which was always an inevitability if you know Ukraine, Ukraine’s history and geopolitics) arrived they’d be more than just militarily prepared.\nThey would be a part of NATO.. but Ukraine wanted to dip its toes in both democracy and wide-scale corruption.", ">\n\nFrom what I understand, the oligarchs and who grabbed up all the candy when the USSR piñata ruptured have been a big part of the problem. They have lost a lot of power and wealth, and some experts believe that this could create a political space for serious reform. I sure hope so!", ">\n\nExactly not to mention many oligarchs actually own news outlets and even television stations. I get what they’re trying to do given the war, but they have to be careful with the execution of it because it’s a step away from authoritarian control over news and media. News and media should be free but within limits too. Ex. Carlson tucker on Fox News in the US isn’t exactly unbiased. If there was a Ukrainian counterpart, they’d try to shut it down.", ">\n\nA nation in war time does not have the luxury of entertaining 100% freedom of information, especially considering the constant misinformation campaigns waged by Russia on top of its land war.", ">\n\nShutting on and off news websites? Banning political parties? BAWWW TYRANNY.\n​\nPeople should not be naive, Ukraine is at war, the survival of their nation is at stake.", ">\n\nPrecisely, and psyops against Ukraine are extremely active.\nI hope they can reach Western values one day, but this is war against a much bigger Country that does not play fair. \nLet's let Ukraine win this war first and give them some time to rebuild before their culture becomes more Western.", ">\n\nHere in Adelaide, Australia, we did that. In the days before websites so he wasn't blocked, but a certain editor knew he wasn't welcome and had to leave town. He was an awful liar and very divisive. Inherited a newspaper from his dad called 'The News'.\nAfter he left town he started a company named after the Adelaide paper, NewsCorp. Rupert Murdoch was the name he went by (though his first name is really Keith, not Rupert). Wonder whatever happened to him?", ">\n\nHe got mad and decided to ruin the world.", ">\n\n\"I think it's good when we do it\" is a dangerous justification", ">\n\nYes, it is very similar to how the freedom of press declined in Russia. All medias were required to be registered by some governmental department in order to \"control the flow of information from abroad\". In no time it became the instrument of banning unwanted media.\nThough I admit banning Russian state media is for the better. Could they be banned in Russia itself, too?", ">\n\nThe thing is who defines that the media is pro-Russian. While it stays for the Ukrainian government to define, Ukrainian freedom of speech basically is being destroyed.", ">\n\nNot really enough information in the article to make an informed opinion on this.\n \nDecision was made by parliament, Zelenskyy's role in this is to sign the law, much like other world leaders don't necessarily agree with everything they have to sign.\nThe article mentions this is to allow them to ban websites not listed as media, which to me means the ability to ban any website if it isn't a registered media website. So, specifically to not allow them to block news websites so long as they are registered.\nAlso mentions this was to try and bring them more in line with EU countries, while at the same time saying it does the opposite.\n \nDo we have a link to the actual text of the new law?", ">\n\nSlippery slope", ">\n\nMost of the west have already blocked RT for their disinformation.", ">\n\nPrivate companies blocking is one thing, but governments is very different.\nA lot of laws created with \"good intentions\" are very often used for bad things, especially in countries with long history of corruption like Ukraine.", ">\n\nFrance is blocking RT", ">\n\nThese things happen during war, in every country.\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over imo.", ">\n\n\nThe real test is seeing what laws will be repealed once this is all over\n\nNone of them will be. Governments never voluntarily surrender any measure of control over the people. That's why the US is still officially in a state of national emergency 22 years after 9/11: so that the government elites can keep using their \"temporary\" emergency powers.", ">\n\nThe exact opposite has been happening in a lot of cases. The war has been used as an excuse to carry out a lot of deregulation and liberalization", ">\n\nLike when they banned left wing opposition parties?", ">\n\nArticle says websites not registered as media could be blocked. Kind of the opposite of what the headline says...", ">\n\nGovernments never relinquish power once they have it. Look at how the patriot act went from protecting our country to taking our rights. This is not a slippery slope. This is what corruption looks like. I really want Ukraine to succeed but decisions like this gives me trepidation.", ">\n\nRussia China bans websites \"fascists, ugly despots, violating human rights\" \nsomeone else does it \"understandable, well within their rights, good step\"\nAn accurate portrayal of exceptionalism", ">\n\nPeople have a hard time applying the same logic to things they like.", ">\n\nCool, there is certainly zero propaganda coming out Ukraine, for sure.", ">\n\nHa!", ">\n\nThat sounds like a healthy and not at all a government propaganda machine.", ">\n\nIt’s their country, let ‘em do as they choose. I can understand it during wartime, but in peacetime it sounds like one of those slippery slopes….", ">\n\nConsidering that before the war started everyone was talking about how corrupt the Ukraine government was I'd expect this to be abused for the duration of the war and after.", ">\n\nWestern media can be just as bad at spouting Russian propaganda. It seems like the editors have no ability to disseminate when I see headlines on APNews/Reuters weekly about how \"Putin is ready to negotiate but Ukraine refuses\".", ">\n\nI mean, this Business Insider article is a pretty fantastic case in point:\nare there reasonable concerns about this law? Yup.\nAre there extremely good reasons to pass it regardless, in a state of war against an adversary which thrives off propaganda? Also yes.\nWill Business Insider try and \"both sides\" this to get the \"BWUH 1984\" crowd arguing about their article? Final yes.", ">\n\nWell, Ukraine has never been the democratic heaven that the west is portraying it as in order to feed the propaganda. It's the most corrupt country in Europe and political opposition prior to the invasion was also suppressed.\nOne of Elensky's opposition leaders was in house arrest, although I can't remember his name. I think he escaped after the war started.", ">\n\nFreedom Fighter bans Dissent", ">\n\nThis is never good", ">\n\nYou either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.\n… Or maybe it’s to block Russian propaganda; idk", ">\n\nGovernment controlled media… if anyone thinks this is a good idea then you’re wrong", ">\n\nWhen has censorship ever been on the right side of history?", ">\n\nLincoln infamously censored free speech and the press during the American civil war, and often arrested (without due process!) anyone publishing media opposing the draft or expressing sympathy for the south", ">\n\n\"don't listen to that propaganda, listen to this propaganda\"" ]